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Immigration Trolls on english spectrum?
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mack the knife



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koreans can't even spell English English words correctly, let alone Korean words translated into English.

Remember the world cup? Public spectors? Disabled elevators?

It's "hogwon" for no other reason than I say so. However, if that's not good enough for you (watch yo' back; I busta cap in yo' *ss!), chew on this. How many native speakers of English around the world are going to look at the word "hakwon" or "hagwon" and NOT pronounce "hak" or "hag" like "f*g". EXACTLY. NONE. Maybe folks of HISPANIC ORIGINS would hit the mark, but they're not native English speakers and therefore do not count.
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Mankind



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urban, I wonder why all these people are suggesting you're either anal, ignorant or just plain wrong? Could it be that we all see something in you that you don't? Maybe you should listen to long-termers more instead of arguing endlessly. You might learn something.

I remember a long time ago, there was a magical land by the sea called Pusan? What ever happened to it?

HAND Smile
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Vince



Joined: 05 May 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does immigration or any other government body explain the reason behind the law? Have there been any significant challenges to the law?
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The Lemon



Joined: 11 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I find it very interesting that a few certain people want people like myself to keep quiet when it comes to privates.


People hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest.

"No, no foreigners ever get busted for teaching privates... it's a vicious rumour spread by evil hogwon owners, recruiters, The Man (who's always trying to keep a waeguk down), and all those goody-goody Dave's ESLers who are obviously jealous of Private Lesson Wealth and are too chicken themselves to do them...LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO..."

We can all sing along. We've heard it so often we know the words by heart.

Back to the OP: Yes, basically, they're illegal.
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LiquidSunshine



Joined: 31 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why do you think privates are illegal?

i. perhaps to keep the classes from sreading too far apart...so not to give the rich a bigger advantage by having access to a better education for their children. that's actually pretty funny...yeah, keep the rich down in a good ol' capitalist system.

ii. perhaps it's a tax matter. gotta pay those taxes.

iii. what's the word out there?
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiquidSunshine wrote:
i. perhaps to keep the classes from sreading too far apart...so not to give the rich a bigger advantage by having access to a better education for their children. that's actually pretty funny...yeah, keep the rich down in a good ol' capitalist system.

That's exactly the reason given by the Korean government- I remember reading a Herald article on this a number of years back (yeah, I know, The Herald Rolling Eyes but still...)

Obviously, this strategy has backfired horrendously.

Quote:
ii. perhaps it's a tax matter. gotta pay those taxes.

Yep.

Quote:
iii. what's the word out there?

I think your first two points pretty much covered it.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mankind wrote:
Urban, I wonder why all these people are suggesting you're either anal, ignorant or just plain wrong? Could it be that we all see something in you that you don't?
HAND Smile


Or maybe they all do privates or are illegal, or both. We all...? Better check again. There are people who are actually agreeing with me. But the vast majority who post on this thread are likely to be the ones doing privates, so they would agree with you. Check the title again. It would seem to be a direct threat to private teachers. Anyway given that there are a lot of "illegals" teaching English in Korea why would you think that I or any other real teacher would care about their opinions? They can't even make it over here. They have to go outside the law. Really it's one thing not be able to make it in the West. It's another thing not to be able to make it in Korea (legally).
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Lemon wrote:
Quote:
I find it very interesting that a few certain people want people like myself to keep quiet when it comes to privates.


People hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest.

"No, no foreigners ever get busted for teaching privates... it's a vicious rumour spread by evil hogwon owners, recruiters, The Man (who's always trying to keep a waeguk down), and all those goody-goody Dave's ESLers who are obviously jealous of Private Lesson Wealth and are too chicken themselves to do them...LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO..."

We can all sing along. We've heard it so often we know the words by heart.

Back to the OP: Yes, basically, they're illegal.



Sound like anybody we know, Mankind? Very Happy
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Mankind



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Myth wrote:
Quote:
And yes, you can make money at a hakwon. One way is getting your employer to agree to work at a second location for a company (which is what I do).
The difference between you and me though, is that I do what I do legally.

I've been meaning to ask you about this? How many hours do you spend at the hogwan? How many at the company? Do they pay you individually?

Quote:
Sound like anybody we know, Mankind?

I won't bother with the whole Lemon quote (save Dave some money in bandwidth). However I will say that I don't on anyway live in a dream world and have never stated that there are no risks to private teaching. I simply think the people like you and perhaps Lemon, greatly over exagerate the risk. It's not that big, if you're smart. Read my posts about Private teaching again (do a search). I simply tell the truth. Not what I want to believe. I don't place a moral sword over peoples heads for teaching privates, as I don't really care if they do it or not.
I do personally believe that jealousy plays a major role in people being against privates (not all but many). People don't like to hear about someone making 4-5 million a month for the same kinda hours, when they can't seem to find those kind of jobs. They just say 'Oh, thats not true. It's a lie. Nobody makes that much. It's illegal anyway and they'll get deported.'

Sound like anyone we know Myth? Smile

Quote:
Anyway given that there are a lot of "illegals" teaching English in Korea why would you think that I or any other real teacher would care about their opinions?

Is it your education degree that makes you a real teacher? Oops, right you don't have one. Your teaching certification? Oops, don't have that either. Your TESOL/TEFL certification? God I forgot, you didn't list that as part of your education before either. Your experience? That must be it! But wait, you have less than I do and I'm not a real teacher, so that can't be it either. Ah I have it! If you follow ever single law in the country, than you can call yourself a real teacher. I've seen my father in law J-walk so I guess his 30 years of teaching mean squat. He'll be sad to hear about that.

HAND Smile
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote=" Qualifications? A Master's in 20th century history
-artsy fartsy-do gooder. My grandfather always told me"if only there was a degree in common sense." It's a money driven society. Korean hagwan directors are always breaking the law. Only do-gooders like you get ripped off and carry on smiling. Utterly foolish.
I am entering my third year at this hakwon. (And the correct romanization is hakwon not hogwan)
-and continuing to get ripped off you bigshot.

No big green evil here.
-of course big shot

I find it far-fetched that these people would be telling their teacher that they are spies, unless of course they are wannabes. Serious spies would not tell ANYONE.
-serious academics wouldn't brag about their qualifications would they? A masters in 20th century history? I'll refer to the commonsense thing again.

For some people it's all about the almighty dollar. For others it's job satisfaction.
-and for mankind it is so get off his back.
Yes some people can teach at a hakwon and like it. Just because you can't doesn't mean that others can't. It's called being able to control a classroom. And yes, you can make money at a hakwon. One way is getting your employer to agree to work at a second location for a company (which is what I do).
-and your director passes all the profit on to you does he? wake up you buffoon.
The difference between you and me though, is that I do what I do legally. That is the problem, not envy (as much as you would like to believe that).
-no it's envy. you can't make more money because you haven't got the bottle for risk. That is what making money is about. That's why your director likes people like you. Just so he can take you to the cleaners. And way you get back, you still wear a goofy smile.

But hey it's your neck if you get caught.
Have a nice day now[/quote]-I am sure he will, but be a lot better off than you for it.
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chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting back to the original topic of this thread, personally, judging from my experience working in ESL and non-ESL companies over here, I've seen such levels of disorganization (as I'm sure most of you also have) in companies and organizations in Korea, that trolling on English Spectrum is giving Immigration far too much credit. Remember who we're talking about.

Yes, if we project ourselves to see their vantage point thru our western eyes and trains of thought, then we can make the connection that that would be a logical possibility.

I believe the theories about jilted ex-girlfriends calling up immigration on their tourist-visa ex-boyfriends (and only then they would likely get a 'yeah, we'll get around to it'). Immigration has their hands absolutely loaded with issues concerning illegal immigrants in the non-esl labor industry to be so hyper-devoted to stalking waygookin down the street to see what business or houses they go into and conduct stake-outs or trolling on teacher websites. And the roaming immigration task forces that are allocated to checking up on hagwons are so lackadaisical, they normally call the hagwons a day or two in advance to make sure that they have their books and payroll in order for when they show up. And that's not including the immigration reps that only go to the hagwons that 'pay out'.

'Oh my friend got busted...oh my friend of a friend of a sister of cousin...blah..blah'...gimme a break...sure, busts do happen for many, many, varing reasons, but lets's hear that from the horse's mouth, instead of having the story told through 5 different ears and mouths who are often attaching their own stories to fill the gaps in the story that they don't know all about.
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't agree more with you. I was working(legally) and the immigration office called the director and told her that they would be doing checks in 4 days time. Now if I was working illegally it would be easy for the director to hide me somewhere or give me the day off in preperation. As for remarks about them being able to speak English. Hahahaha. I went there once to get documents in order and their phonics were utterly provincial. A bunch of corrupt dumbasses.
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Derrek



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:25 am    Post subject: English Reply with quote

When I got busted by immigration, the guys who did it spoke poor English at best. They seemed to be particularly proud of the "You teach English ILLEGALLY" phrase... I heard that one more than once, and on different occasions as I worked through that mess. Otherwise, they struggled to keep an English conversation. The guy at my "hearing" didn't speak a word. Some help that is! These guys are working with foreigners every day, and they don't speak any English.... wow, Korean government is a joke and a half! If you ever get busted, BRING A KOREAN FRIEND! I was never even asked to give "my story". My former boss (whom I don't trust) did all of the talking.

Another one of the guys who raided our school also works upstairs on floor two. I saw him when I went back there to get my new blue paper. He has those eery bloodshot eyes and odd skin color which is so common among alcoholic Koreans. He seemed to have some sort of authority on that floor, but again, his English sucks. He is the same dumbazz who couldn't drive the van, and crashed it into a parked car. Given the look of the guy, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had tipped back a few recently.

He is the same guy who only allowed me a 6 month visa this time (as if that's some sort of punishment). When my recruiter and I asked why it only said, "6 months" on the blue paper, he barked, "You teach English ILLEGALLY -- 6 Month Visa!"

So I have to go to Omokyo again in 6 months and renew... big fat hairy deal. If they like doing more paperwork, then so be it. It gives me an easy "out" if my new school turns out to be a bad situation (it seems great so far, however).

The sad thing is, the younger ladies (and men) working downstairs can often speak it well enough. But for whatever reason, they keep the older, less-educated ones in charge.... probably because they are male and older.

Good ol' Korea..... don't go with what works best -- go with tradition. Then blame the rest of the world for your problems.
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: English Reply with quote

He is the same dumbazz who couldn't drive the van, and crashed it into a parked car. Given the look of the guy, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had tipped back a few recently.

-Yea very good. Could one argue that you were the "dumbazz" (great spelling by the way.) for getting caught in the first place? Who do you think was having the most laughs? You or him?

It's you that is a dumbass.
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Derrek



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:59 pm    Post subject: Wow Reply with quote

Wow... standing up for immigration trolls.... either you are korean or ... hmm... who knows???

Obviously you didn't read about my situation before.

And yes, I'm sure I laughed more than him. Especially when I waltzed in and got another E-2 less than 2 weeks later.
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