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Immigration Trolls on english spectrum?
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd just like to point out that there are multiple companies that offer interpreters. It's only a phonecall to have someone sent down to translate and speak for you in such situations like dealing with Immigration.

Oh, wait. That costs money. It's cheaper to complain about not getting service in English and go on about how one was treated unfairly than to spend money to do something about solving language issues.
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Derrek



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:08 pm    Post subject: But Reply with quote

wrote:
Not that I'm trying to stick up for immigration or anything, but I'd like to point something out. Immigration does not deal exclusively with English-speaking foreign workers. They deal with foreigners who come from MANY MANY different language backgrounds. If they know a few phrases in each language, I'd say they were doing pretty good.


But out of curiousity, what percentage of people who come to this country for work can also speak English? I can think of several .... England, USA, Aussie, NZ, South African, Canada, Philippines (most of them speak it there), etc.

Don't you think it would be useful for the people at immigration, who deal with people from other countries on a daily basis, to know English at least moderately well? I mean, come on, English is THE predominant language in the business world right now. It sure isn't French, or Korean, or even Chinese (not yet, anyway).

The reason is so obvious, I think. The guys who are the higher-ups don't speak it. Until they retire or leave, they aren't going to be replaced, or shamed by being told they need to improve their English. It's just not the Korean way. Until they are gone, we are stuck with the same.
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Wow Reply with quote

Derrek wrote:
Wow... standing up for immigration trolls.... either you are korean or ... hmm... who knows???

Obviously you didn't read about my situation before.

And yes, I'm sure I laughed more than him. Especially when I waltzed in and got another E-2 less than 2 weeks later.


Wasn't inconvenient then?
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rike wrote:
Not that I'm trying to stick up for immigration or anything, but I'd like to point something out. Immigration does not deal exclusively with English-speaking foreign workers. They deal with foreigners who come from MANY MANY different language backgrounds. If they know a few phrases in each language, I'd say they were doing pretty good.


I would have to disagree here. In the UK our immigration departments have staff members that can speak Urdu, Punjabi, Spanish, German, etc. It's a bare minimum if they are to run an ifficient immigration system. If Koreans don't have these skills available in their workforce then they should consider recruiting foreigners for these purposes.
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord wrote:
I'd just like to point out that there are multiple companies that offer interpreters. It's only a phonecall to have someone sent down to translate and speak for you in such situations like dealing with Immigration.
-In the UK foreigners get free lawyers as well as free interpreters. It isn't always easy to speak on the phone if there is a legal issue that needs to be resolved. Immigration officials are invariably dealing with such issues.
If Korea aspires to be a major hub of East Asia then it is imperative that they deal with these matters.

Oh, wait. That costs money. It's cheaper to complain about not getting service in English and go on about how one was treated unfairly than to spend money to do something about solving language issues.

- If Korea maintains bog standard interpretation/legal advice then one could argue that it is not fully meeting it's responsibilities as a major economic power. "cheaping it," is a phrase that comes to mind. If they meet these "obligations" then there would be less room for complaint.
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gwangjuboy wrote:
- If Korea maintains bog standard interpretation/legal advice then one could argue that it is not fully meeting it's responsibilities as a major economic power. "cheaping it," is a phrase that comes to mind. If they meet these "obligations" then there would be less room for complaint.


So after Immigration catches someone working illegally, you are suggesting that Immigration should pony up the cost of having someone speak fluent English so the person working illegally can claim that yes they were working illegally, but had a very good reason and shouldn't be kicked out?
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Holyjoe



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Away for a cuppa

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gwangjuboy wrote:
As for remarks about them being able to speak English. Hahahaha.


Quote:
I went there once


So you went there once and you're an expert on the level of English spoken by all the immigration employees? Rolling Eyes
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holyjoe wrote:
Gwangjuboy wrote:
As for remarks about them being able to speak English. Hahahaha.


Quote:
I went there once


So you went there once and you're an expert on the level of English spoken by all the immigration employees? Rolling Eyes


It's a fair point. Maybe a little hyperbole on my part. However, the immigration office I went to represents a city of about 1.5 million people so I guess that it is fair to say that my account would apply to most if not all of the immigration offices in Korea.
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gwangjuboy wrote:
It's a fair point. Maybe a little hyperbole on my part. However, the immigration office I went to represents a city of about 1.5 million people so I guess that it is fair to say that my account would apply to most if not all of the immigration offices in Korea.


As someone who works with Immigration employees in a city of 2 million or so, I'm going to have to disagree with your opinion.
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So after Immigration catches someone working illegally, you are suggesting that Immigration should pony up the cost of having someone speak fluent English so the person working illegally can claim that yes they were working illegally, but had a very good reason and shouldn't be kicked out?[/quote]

I am not just referring to the illegals. I am also referring other cicumstances such as alien registration, rights of appeal, and personal/legal aid. For example. When I visited the immigration office I had to give a set of my fingerprints. I wasn't aware of this requirement. It would have been nice if someone could explain this to me instead of being given a piece of paper refering to a law that for all I know might not have existed. Measures (or lack of them) like that give immigration a blank cheque to do whatever they please.

In the UK immigrants are allowed all measure of appeals. Some even get as far as the High Court at a cost of millions per annum. I don't like this at all. However, I believe that if the rich Western countries are pulling their weight then maybe the rich Eastern nations have to jump on board too.

It's not an anti Korea argument merely an academic one.
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who works with Immigration employees in a city of 2 million or so, I'm going to have to disagree with your opinion.[/quote]

Which city do you work in? Anyway, I did concede that it might be hyperbole but I am just recounting my own experiences. A lot of other posters have raised the same concern. Maybe the problem is confined to the smaller cities.
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waterbaby



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Baking Gord a Cheescake pie

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going out on a limb here but I'm going to suggest that out of the 300,000 plus foreigners working here in Korea, only a handful are English teachers and a handful more native english speakers. Most of the foreigners here are from other Asian countries working in factories and the like.
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BTM



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Back in the saddle.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd just like to point out that there are multiple companies that offer interpreters.


OK, The Gord, that's useful info. But why not go whole hog, and rather than just snarking, actually provide some links or other contact info to these companies with which you have familiarity, as a service to the community and stuff?

'cause I sure as hell don't know who they are, and I'm at least 83% as well-informed as you, I reckons!
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gwangjuboy wrote:
[quote=" Qualifications? A Master's in 20th century history
-artsy fartsy-do gooder. My grandfather always told me"if only there was a degree in common sense." It's a money driven society. Korean hagwan directors are always breaking the law. Only do-gooders like you get ripped off and carry on smiling. Utterly foolish.
I am entering my third year at this hakwon. (And the correct romanization is hakwon not hogwan)
-and continuing to get ripped off you bigshot.

No big green evil here.
-of course big shot

I find it far-fetched that these people would be telling their teacher that they are spies, unless of course they are wannabes. Serious spies would not tell ANYONE.
-serious academics wouldn't brag about their qualifications would they? A masters in 20th century history? I'll refer to the commonsense thing again.

For some people it's all about the almighty dollar. For others it's job satisfaction.
-and for mankind it is so get off his back.
Yes some people can teach at a hakwon and like it. Just because you can't doesn't mean that others can't. It's called being able to control a classroom. And yes, you can make money at a hakwon. One way is getting your employer to agree to work at a second location for a company (which is what I do).
-and your director passes all the profit on to you does he? wake up you buffoon.
The difference between you and me though, is that I do what I do legally. That is the problem, not envy (as much as you would like to believe that).
-no it's envy. you can't make more money because you haven't got the bottle for risk. That is what making money is about. That's why your director likes people like you. Just so he can take you to the cleaners. And way you get back, you still wear a goofy smile.

But hey it's your neck if you get caught.
Have a nice day now
-I am sure he will, but be a lot better off than you for it.[/quote]


This is funny, coming from someone who can't even use the quote function correctly.

Anyway let's look at your post. How do you know that I am getting ripped off? You can't I get everything that was agreed to in the contract so you are wrong.

Now as for serious academics, I was not bragging. Mankind asked for my qualifications so I provided them. And my point about the spies still stands. You aren't Mankind's alter ego by any chance are you? You seem to be putting up a rather impassioned defense of him. One has to wonder why that is. I am sure he is a big boy and can take care of himself.

As for working at a company, where did I say that the director passes on all the profit to me? Wake up you loser. Again we signed a contract and he gets his cut and I get mine.

As for not having the bottle for risk, no. I could do privates but I do not because I believe it's immoral. That is the difference between us. I have a code of values, you do not.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mankind wrote:
Myth wrote:
Quote:
And yes, you can make money at a hakwon. One way is getting your employer to agree to work at a second location for a company (which is what I do).
The difference between you and me though, is that I do what I do legally.

I've been meaning to ask you about this? How many hours do you spend at the hogwan? How many at the company? Do they pay you individually?

[People don't like to hear about someone making 4-5 million a month for the same kinda hours, when they can't seem to find those kind of jobs. They just say 'Oh, thats not true. It's a lie. Nobody makes that much. It's illegal anyway and they'll get deported.'

Sound like anyone we know Myth? Smile

Quote:
Anyway given that there are a lot of "illegals" teaching English in Korea why would you think that I or any other real teacher would care about their opinions?

Is it your education degree that makes you a real teacher? Oops, right you don't have one. Your teaching certification? Oops, don't have that either. Your TESOL/TEFL certification? God I forgot, you didn't list that as part of your education before either. Your experience? That must be it! But wait, you have less than I do and I'm not a real teacher, so that can't be it either. Ah I have it! If you follow ever single law in the country, than you can call yourself a real teacher. I've seen my father in law J-walk so I guess his 30 years of teaching mean squat. He'll be sad to hear about that.

HAND Smile


Twenty-five hours at the hakwon, 12 at the company. Yes I am paid individually.

Sure one can make 4-5 million a month.... if they are teaching privates. Never said they couldn't. What I did say is that, if they are caught they will be deported and fined. What makes me a real teacher? Three years in the education system back in the West. I can teach both here and there. Can you do the same? And when did I say that YOU personally were not a "real" teacher?


I know a guy who works about 45 hours. He has two legal jobs like myself and he makes 4 million a month, so I know it is possible to obtain that kind of money. But I would rather work a little less and have more spare time. And I would rather not have to look over my shoulder constantly for Immigration. But then again each to his own. Some people like living on the knife-edge I guess.
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