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what is a reasonable salary?
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SkillSkillette



Joined: 25 Jul 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 2:04 pm    Post subject: what is a reasonable salary? Reply with quote

Hi, Can anyone tell me about the 'norm' salary expectations for a certified teacher? I am a certified in the public system here with a 5 year degree in Canada. I have had experience teaching overseas and have close to 3 years experience here. I'm just curious what one can usually expect to ask for a salary when applying at a hogwan? If an ad says 2 mil..how much do directors move on this? Is 2.4 mil too much to ask? If a school says they pay anywhere from 1.8 to 2.4 max but say that in order to get 2.4 there would be an expectation of revamping the curriculum...(though I'm not too sure what that means) can an actual teacher expect more than, say someone with just a regular degree?. A 30hour a week job seems to be the norm..how much room is there for 'negotiations' here? Any help?
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Squid



Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Location: Sunny Anyang

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most hagwons now are loath to part with over 2mil for 120 hours per month it seems, though I'll be corrected no doubt.

With your quals. and exp. you should get what you expect, about 2.4, even up to 2.8 (Hearsay the last one).

Most employers, and agencies in particular, will post high salary quotes to get you interested- unfortunately I've yet to be offered the top ones, and I guess most replies will concur with that at least.

Anyhow, take your time, you're the commodity they're seeking, and if you hold out you may get what you want.

By the by, 120hrs or 130hrs or whatever they quote translates into considerably more on the job as you get stuck for all sorts of other stuff to do with the schools, meetings, seminars, prep. work etc so be prepared for that- it's usually not too onerous but must be kept in mind.

Hope this is of some help to you.

Yours Squidly
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Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 3:03 pm    Post subject: response Reply with quote

You are certified in Canada. Your certification is acceptable in Canada.
You are not certified in Korea. Your Canadian certification is insignificant in Korea.

"If an ad says 2 mil..how much do directors move on this?"
You might be able to get 2 million.

"Can an actual teacher expect more than, say someone with just a regular degree?"
No.
Your certification and teaching experience as an "actual teacher" does not matter in Korea.

Foreign teachers are hired hands. Foreign teachers are expected to leave. Your experience and credentials are insignificant in Korea.

The foreign professor -- colleague or hired hand?
Foreign professors do most of the heavy lifting in terms of course loads, devoting themselves almost exclusively to teaching. Nevertheless, they tend to be treated as hired hands, without academic standing, and lacking the possibility of career advancement or tenure. They must submit to yearly contracts (compensated at a rate only 60 percent of their Korean peers) while walled off from the permanent Korean faculty who benefit from travel, research funding, sabbaticals, etc. Moreover, when hundreds of Korean scholars enjoy such perks at American and other foreign universities, something is obviously amiss.

According to the Samsung Group's chairman, Lee Kun-hee, to succeed globally, Korea must forgo the thought that Korea and being Korean is superior, and foreign specialists must be treated with respect. If Korean companies follow this standard, Korea's institutions of higher learning cannot afford to do less.

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200206/14/200206142349223599900090109011.html
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SkillSkillette



Joined: 25 Jul 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ooooooooooooooooook...interesting reply Real Reality..but not very 'informative' if you know what I mean. That's the first time I've ever had anyone say that being a certified teacher in Canada means nothing in Korea. Actually, most of my experience researching this seems to indicate that hogwans will pay more for people with teaching experience...so I'm not sure what you are implying. But I think Squid understood the question I was asking. I think I'm well aware that my certification is only good in Canada, I was looking for input regarding what that means in terms of negotiations with postings in Korea. Anyone else who understands what I was getting at I would love some insight with your experiences. Thanks!
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Bubbliee



Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Location: Kelowna, BC Canada

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not toatlly sure what the normal salary is and how much it can be moved. I just signed a contract and will be in Seoul at the end of this month. I was originally only offered 1.9 million won. I negotiated with the director, told him about my qualifications in a little more detail and he raised my salary. I signed for 2.2 millioni won per month. So yes it is possible to negotiate. GOOD LUCK!
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canuckistan
Mod Team
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a certified teacher with 10 years of experience teaching ESL. You certainly are a commodity here that they are willing to pay for. Hagwons love advertising they have "real" teachers. I'm making 2.4 for working anywhere from 6 to 15 hours a week, brand new apt. Just wait until the right offer comes along and negotiate, certified teachers are in the minority here.
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itaewonguy



Joined: 25 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canuckistan wrote:
I'm a certified teacher with 10 years of experience teaching ESL. You certainly are a commodity here that they are willing to pay for. Hagwons love advertising they have "real" teachers. I'm making 2.4 for working anywhere from 6 to 15 hours a week, brand new apt. Just wait until the right offer comes along and negotiate, certified teachers are in the minority here.


ok dont keep us all suspence...

new apartment and only 6- 15 hours a week...
who are you teaching? what are you teaching?
where are you teaching?

thanks..
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canuckistan
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm teaching children English for a large hagwon chain that only hires certified teachers.
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kimcheeking
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canuckistan wrote:
I'm teaching children English for a large hagwon chain that only hires certified teachers.


Can't be too large, I haven't heard of it and i have been in Korea for over 6 years


certified teachers will get better jobs with a little more money usually, but it doesn't really count much. You will have to look, be picky, take your time, and you will find what you want.
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JackSarang



Joined: 28 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canuckistan wrote:
I'm teaching children English for a large hagwon chain that only hires certified teachers.


Why the mystery? Which large magical franchise in lolly-pop land is it?

As to the original post.. as a certified teacher you have alot more options than usual hogwan jockeys.

I seriously doubt you'd be offered more than 2.4 for working in a hogwan, most the time experience, background etc means jack, beyond the fact that any school you apply to will want to hire you. It does have some small degree of cache value.

However, as a certified teacher you may want to look into teaching at a foreign school. They are scattered all over the country and seem to hire reguarly. You'd be paid more and treated better, but work more hours.
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canuckistan
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's large. Perhaps the reason you haven't heard about it is because they only recently started hiring foreign certified teachers to run an international program designed to compete with other schools doing such, with the goal of prepping students for admission into the few good foreign high schools around here.
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BTM



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Back in the saddle.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You are certified in Canada. Your certification is acceptable in Canada. You are not certified in Korea. Your Canadian certification is insignificant in Korea.


And you, sir, haven't a freakin' clue. Get back under your bridge, troll!

Edit to say that I am a cert'd teacher, and although in many cases it overqualifies you in this country, and is valued less than an MA (foolishly - I know some MA Lings who couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag and know less about linguistics than I do), a real cert (not some 4 week TEFL thing) is a valued commodity.

Then again, I am unemployed at the moment. Laughing
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canuckistan
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bottom line is that it is possible to negotiate better-than-average working conditions as a certified teacher here. There are some schools that do appreciate qualifications and experience.
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kylehawkins2000



Joined: 08 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many schools would love to boast that they have certified teachers on staff. Some schools (perhaps most) prefer to hire unqualified teachers so they can pay them less.....other schools put more importance on establishing a reputation as a quality school with good teachers, so will pay a little more for your services.

I am a certified teacher and my hogwan was very happy to have the chance to bring me on board. THe conditions of my contract are a little better than they would have otherwise been, had I not been a certified teacher.

Mind you, the experience of teaching ESL and living in Korea is usually more highly valued than having a BEd degree.

Since you have more than 2 years experience, I would suggest applying to some of the International Schools in Korea. The benefits, pay, and working hours are all better than at the typical Hogwan. I know that some schools are desperatly seeking qualified teachers to fill vacancies for Septmeber.
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Giant



Joined: 14 May 2003
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:14 am    Post subject: My 5 cents Reply with quote

Yes, you probably could get more being "certified", but the general rule of thumb is that most hagwons dont care about your degree, just that you are a foreign english speaking person. Thats what it boils down to. Most places dont even care about the quality of the babysitting... *cough cough* I mean teaching.

Of course try to get more money but at the end of the day 90% dont care about your credentials.

I get W1,700,000 but I only work 4 days a week for six hours a day. I prefer that to getting more money and working more hours. I am happy with my work and thats all that matters.
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