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Korean Universities get a Fail
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Ae Korean universities' English programs sub-standard
Korean universities are a "joke" compared to the average American ones
89%
 89%  [ 17 ]
Korean universities are good and understimated
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 19

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Pusanpoe



Joined: 27 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:07 pm    Post subject: Korean Universities get a Fail Reply with quote

I think we are seeing new meaner/ leaner universitiy administrations in Korea but not necessarily so much academically better. However, in my hometown, Pusan Nat. U has had a reputation of being meaner since a few years ago when students rightfully got fed up with the (past) poor quality teaching there of native speakers. Overall to be fair, the generally low quality educational environment at the post secondary level in Korea does not bring the best out of even the best native speakers. It is almost impossible to fail the most academically miserable miscreants. And in Korea, the extent to which you do publishing and research as far as native speakers go (though changing?) is a disgrace.

The only two countries to which one can give a pass for the quality of their native speakers-generally speaking are Japan and Singapore with Hong Kong up there. That is not to say that there are some outstanding instructors around but they have largely atrophied faced with the vast momentum of academic mediocrity.

Those bordering on being acceptable. SNU, Yeonsei. Ewha (a few others mostly in Seoul)
Those of acceptable quality KAIST, KJIST, Pohang Inst. Technology

The mergers and dumping of poorer professors is required and higher status, salaries and responsibilities need to be given to those who truly are dedicated to excellence and not supporting the drivel of giving b averages to those who almost never show up. Disgusting is the word for such approaches-with all due reverence to cultural differences may I add.
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BTM



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Back in the saddle.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand, there's places like my ex-uni (as of 10 days from now) (which shall go nameless), which has lost its two most experienced, qualified, enthusiastic and popular instructors (me Laughing and one other), because they wanted people who were more Christian and who would work cheaper and teach kindies during the breaks.

Of the three newbies that replaced us two old hands, word has it that two of them have never actually been in front of a classroom before. Go go gadget instructional quality!

I'm not bitter, but I'm workin' on it! Mad


Last edited by BTM on Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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ulsanchris



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:39 am    Post subject: hmm Reply with quote

IF Korean universities are as poor as the origianl posting makes them seem then I feel sorry for all the students who basically give up their teenage years studying to get into them. All that studying to go to a poor university. Thats gotta suck.
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kimcheeking
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:41 am    Post subject: Re: hmm Reply with quote

ulsanchris wrote:
IF Korean universities are as poor as the origianl posting makes them seem then I feel sorry for all the students who basically give up their teenage years studying to get into them. All that studying to go to a poor university. Thats gotta suck.


Once your in, the degree is a rubber stamp.
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katydid



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Location: Here kitty kitty kitty...

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: hmm Reply with quote

ulsanchris wrote:
IF Korean universities are as poor as the origianl posting makes them seem then I feel sorry for all the students who basically give up their teenage years studying to get into them. All that studying to go to a poor university. Thats gotta suck.



There ARE those kind of universities, and then there are those who seem to have taken lessons out of the Animal House movie on what kinds of students the administration should try to attract.
My school is a school whose motto should be "Show Me the Money!" and not anything to do with academic excellence or perserverence.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: hmm Reply with quote

ulsanchris wrote:
IF Korean universities are as poor as the origianl posting makes them seem then I feel sorry for all the students who basically give up their teenage years studying to get into them. All that studying to go to a poor university. Thats gotta suck.


That's because Korean universities aren't really universities as much as they are "social clubs". Students go to them, not so much to get an education, but to be accepted into a social group. With that acceptance come connections for future employment as well as present romantic interests.

Korean students spend the majority of their lifetime in classrooms. Is it any wonder that we have a hard time trying to converse with such people. After all, they have no real life experience (outside of the classroom). Some of them have never traveled, gone camping or even had so much as a summer job. Their whole lives have been spent walking between the classroom to the PC room and home.

I can only say that I feel incredibly sorry for Korean kids. By working here, I am participating in and perpetuating this madness. But I need a job too. Shocked Aigo
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Arthur Fonzerelli



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: Suwon

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

are universities back in the west any better? if you get a liberal arts degree you're pretty much one of millions with the same worthless piece of paper saying you know how to bs your way through 4 years of higher education....

what did my lambskin get me?

a wonderful job teaching english in korea Rolling Eyes
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Len8



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Universities have a budget for native English speakers, and that's all many of those hiring are concerned about. Quality therefore is a potluck thing, and it always will be.The closest we get to being evaluated is by the students. All universities have their students evaluate both the Korean Professors and the native English speakers. The students are pretty fair. If you try in the face of total apathy on the part of the students, you usually get a passing evaluation. Our preparation for classes doesn't require a lot of academic input, so our minds can get a little jaded. Maybe if there was an organized University teachers group for all native speakers, something could get done for the whole university teaching thing.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arthur Fonzerelli wrote:
are universities back in the west any better? if you get a liberal arts degree you're pretty much one of millions with the same worthless piece of paper saying you know how to bs your way through 4 years of higher education....

what did my lambskin get me?

a wonderful job teaching english in korea Rolling Eyes


While I feel similarly about my "BF-all in music", I have to add that at least I had to do some work for my degree. Razz I could not have just attended a few classes and sluffed my way through the courses and still expect to pass. True, there are a lot of things that are/were useless in my education, but I think the most important thing I did learn was how to sort through it all, how to separate the useful from the useless and how to think for myself. This is something that Korean universities don't seem to be doing very well. ( at least what I've seen and heard of them)

I am not sure how Korean technical and scientific programs rate globally, but their language and liberal arts programs are really sub-standard.

Just my thoughts.
Cheers
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We only see the students in class for one english language instructed course. I don't see how we can judge Korean students or Universities on one class that most students view as an option and unlikely to use heavily later on. Maybe 10% of the population use english in their daily lives in any significant way. I highly doubt many of us have the language skills to truly judge a Korean Universities overall quality.

As for the technical fields, Korean Universities do pretty well. In the last ACM IBM Programming contest a Korean University tied 13th with 5 or so other places. I believe Russian and Chinese Universities ranked 9 of the top 10 in the contest. However, these days, the techinical schools in Korea are having difficulty attracting students to enter the engineering and science programs.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="jvalmer"]We only see the students in class for one english language instructed course. I don't see how we can judge Korean students or Universities on one class that most students view as an option and unlikely to use heavily later on. Maybe 10% of the population use english in their daily lives in any significant way. I highly doubt many of us have the language skills to truly judge a Korean Universities overall quality.



Perhaps not, but I can say this. No matter what class I had enrolled in, whether it was an elective, non-elective, useful or useless to me in later life, I had to do the work to pass the class! If I didn't do the work, I failed.

Yes Koreans seem to be more computer-wise than a lot of us in the west,
but they can't seem to think independently. This (the capability for independent and origianal thinking) is something that entrepreneurs and corporations are looking for, not the ability to copy everything in sight.
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canukteacher



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]the ability to copy everything in sight.

My students even have a difficult time copying something from the white board without missing "the" "a" or the "s" on an end of a word.


Let's also remember this is a required course. They must pass English to graduate.
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Kalhoun



Joined: 30 May 2003
Location: Land of the midnight noise!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Korean university (moneyversity) education is one long stupid debutant party with idiots worshipping at the porcelaine and kissing the asses of their elders.

Kalhoun
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katydid



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Location: Here kitty kitty kitty...

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kalhoun wrote:
The Korean university (moneyversity) education is one long stupid debutant party with idiots worshipping at the porcelaine and kissing the asses of their elders.

Kalhoun


Was your first day of class really that bad, Kalhoun? Wink I'm kind of excited for my classes this year. I have three of the supposedly "good" majors for teaching English to this semester: Tourism, Foreign Languages, and Social Welfare. Supposedly, these majors have really receptive students. The fourth one, Digital Business is a toss-up. I've only had one class so far, and all I can say is man, I have some really giggly girls in my English class for Tourism majors.
Does anyone else who teaches at a uni find that one major is better to teach than another? Here, apart from the three I have named, some other good majors to teach English to are Design and Early Elementary Education. It's rumored here that the Phys. Ed. majors are a really tough bunch.
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Medic



Joined: 11 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buisness majors are always good. Whenever I get them I find that they try hard to improve their spoken English. They are very aware of the need for English in buisness. We also have a big social welfare department, and we envy the native teacher who gets them as freshmen. He or she lucks out, because they are all girls, and very eager to not just learn English, but to also speak it.

The engineering freshmen are good, because their college csat scores were higher than most. The draughtsmen or arhitecture majors as they are called are down at the bottom of the barrel along with the Art and Physical education majors. They have neither the interest nor the aptitude for any academic work whatsoever.
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