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send the North Korean team home
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Alias



Joined: 24 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

indiercj wrote:
Yesterday's show was a typical clash form both extremes. I wish they fight anywhere else than in my country.

What surprises me the most reading the entire forum is that most of foreign teachers sympathize with what right wing Koreans say about North Korea while neglecting the fact that these Koreans also oppose to any forms of foreign working imigrants. I know you don't consider yourself as those from south asia or middle east working in sweat shops. Of course usually the fascist right is also pro-american so you would find them comfortable to some aspect. But for me, standing in line with them and bashing this government while engulfing himself with Chosun Ilbo and Dong-a Ilbo and still claiming of being a liberal doesn't make sense.


Are you aware that there were legitimate human rights demonstrators who were assaulted by the North Korean media yesterday? If I demonstrated against the North Korean regime would that make me a fascist?

Of course we support them. It is called freedom of speech. It makes perfect sense. Of course the North Korean regime does not believe in such democratic principles. Pyong'yangs apologists seem to ignore this and many other facts. Confused
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kiwiboy_nz_99



Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What surprises me the most reading the entire forum is that most of foreign teachers sympathize with what right wing Koreans say about North Korea while neglecting the fact that these Koreans also oppose to any forms of foreign working imigrants

The "thinking person" approaches things issue by issue. I'm with the right wing south koreans on this, but not with them on foreign labour and immigration issues. Can you get your head round that?
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Trinny



Joined: 01 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

indiercj wrote:
What surprises me the most reading the entire forum is that most of foreign teachers sympathize with what right wing Koreans say about North Korea while neglecting the fact that these Koreans also oppose to any forms of foreign working imigrants. I know you don't consider yourself as those from south asia or middle east working in sweat shops. Of course usually the fascist right is also pro-american so you would find them comfortable to some aspect. But for me, standing in line with them and bashing this government while engulfing himself with Chosun Ilbo and Dong-a Ilbo and still claiming of being a liberal doesn't make sense.


What do the foreign migrant workers have got to do with the North Korean issue? I don't get it here.

I don't get the news about North Korean from Korean media. Thank you. Most of my knowledge on the Northern Brethern is from the first-hand encounters with North Koreans or through people who interviewed North Koreans extensively and are the authors of books on human rights issue in the hermit kingdom.

Listen; While South Korean gov't was pursuing the so-called "SUn-shine Policy", it refused to accept its own citzens kidnapped by North Korea during the 70's and who escaped the North at their own willing. What is the point of this nicey-nicey policy, while the gov't cannot protect the human rights of its own citizens?

Do liberals in South Korea support the world's most atrocious regime? Would you mind defining the term "liberal"? In their opinion, being nicey nicey with Kim Jeong-il equals to reunification?
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly off the original topic, but I'm dissapointed in Roh Moo-Hyun. He's appeared spineless more times than not and oversensetive. OH NO, the newspapers don't like me!!! I'm going to sue them! Rolling Eyes

THe NK problem is another instance of him being a bit spineless, especially over the man burning the NK flag a couple weeks ago.

It seems clear to me that the Sunshine Policy isn't working.
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Trinny



Joined: 01 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
OH NO, the newspapers don't like me!!! I'm going to sue them!


Life is tough! How many newspapers in the world do love political leaders? He completely forgot the fact that slapping the leaders is a popular national sport anywhere.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now president Roh has deferred to the dear leader up North again, by issuing a statement of regret over the fisticuffs fiasco at the games.
North korea demanded that the peaceful demonstrators behind the "down with kim jong il" statements be "punished".
Ideally roh would be able to say something like "How can I apologise for a handful of peaceful demonstrators expressing themselves freely? If you don't like their opinions, lets have a live televised debate about human rights. If your Dear leader can't take the slightest criticism without wanting to kill those involved, what hope for the future can your miserable country have?'
But i guess politics just isn't like that....
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear President Roh,

Please stop being a wimp. Don't apologize for your people protesting against North Korea. Don't worry, no matter what your people do, North Korea won't attack. It knows it will be toast if it were to ever do such an idiotic thing.

So get a set of balls and support YOUR people, not the tyranical neighbor to the north of you.

Yours truely,
BB

PS. Sorry to say, but those meetings coming up later this week aren't going to solve a freaking thing.
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indiercj



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alias wrote:
Are you aware that there were legitimate human rights demonstrators who were assaulted by the North Korean media yesterday? If I demonstrated against the North Korean regime would that make me a fascist?

Of course we support them. It is called freedom of speech. It makes perfect sense. Of course the North Korean regime does not believe in such democratic principles. Pyong'yangs apologists seem to ignore this and many other facts. Confused


Yes. I am. And I know who those "legitimate human rights demonstrators" are. That last term is making me laugh though because these demonstrators are infact the extreme right wing people who basically are war veterans and their families. These people look at North Koreans and any South Koreans who don't agree with them as enemies. Their way to end this North/South Korean crisis is either the US or the South Korean military to intervene directly no matter what the cost. Showing the slightest sympathy with the sunshine policy or any other forms of socialims will make you their enemy. Those people advocate only the freedom of speech of the right wings. Some of those people were in front of the "ideological slaughter" under Park Jung Hee's regime. They don't even have a right to mention "human rights". So please join them if you dare. But believe me, you can't blame the Koreans calling you fascist for that.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indiercj: One of the demonstrators, the disabled german who bore the brunt of the N.K reporter's cowardly attack, is famous for his efforts to get humanitarian aid into the North. there's gratitude for you.
If the rest were War veterans and their families, that qualifies them with a greater right to have their voice heard than the average cossetted, video-game absorbed youth of todays' complacent young generation.
Just my opinion...
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Alias



Joined: 24 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess you aren't aware that one of the people ASSAULTED by the North Korean press was in fact a human rights activist from Germany. Yes, I have no problem stadning with legitimate human rights activists protesting against the attrocities committed by Kim Jung-Il. Why do so many of Pyong-yang's apologists want to censure those who say negative things about the North? So much for freedom of speech.
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Alias



Joined: 24 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
Indiercj: One of the demonstrators, the disabled german who bore the brunt of the N.K reporter's cowardly attack, is famous for his efforts to get humanitarian aid into the North. there's gratitude for you.


Tyring to get humanitarian aid into the North apparently makes you an imperialist. Or if you are a North Korean trying to get that food it makes you a counter-revolutionary. Rolling Eyes
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I confess i have little real knowledge of life in N.K, but I read a first - hend account "The aquariums of Pyongyang". The author describes a tendency in the children to pick on and attack any foreigners they saw. In fact the whole desperate society of the North is a street - fighting hell.
The historybooks show that the northerners have always been poorer, tougher, and hardfighting types- more so than their southern counterparts. And way more xenophopic.
My point? In a crowd of protesters, a foreigner shouting insults at them would've drawn their anger a lot quicker than a South korean doing the same thing.
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indiercj



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
Indiercj: One of the demonstrators, the disabled german who bore the brunt of the N.K reporter's cowardly attack, is famous for his efforts to get humanitarian aid into the North. there's gratitude for you.
If the rest were War veterans and their families, that qualifies them with a greater right to have their voice heard than the average cossetted, video-game absorbed youth of todays' complacent young generation.
Just my opinion...


Yes he is. But that's exactly the difference in views between westerners and Koreans. We see these events in context with the political situation in hand: we fought so hard to land democracy, freedom of speach, a peacefull resolution for the unification problem and so forth to this country form those right wing monsters. And that battle goes on. But usually you don't give a sh*t to all these. All that matter to you is the fact that the North Korean regime is bad and should be abolished at all costs. simple as that. I believe the German doctor was protesting with all the good intentions but still he was in the wrong place with the wrong guys.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

indiercj: do you honestly expect a positive, peaceful solution and transition/ reunification while the likes of the Dear leader is in power?
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Alias



Joined: 24 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus, did any poster here seriously suggest that war should be declared on the North? Only a neo-conservative hawk would take such a line.

Also, since the Germany protestor was "with the wrong group of guys" did he deserve to be assualted? If Doctors Without Borders were to hold a protest against Kim Il-Sung would you consider them to be "right wing extremists"
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