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Parenting
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dutchman



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: My backyard

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:22 pm    Post subject: Parenting Reply with quote

(Arms and legs spread wide, fully prepared to be crucified)

I've read posts from some people who I know to be parents and can't help but shake my head. Particularly the ones from a couple of people who seem to be proud of the fact that they spend all night out drinking and getting totally smashed. Is this really the example you want to be setting for your kids. At one point does a person grow up and sacrifice his/her own pleasure for the good of his/her family? Personally I think that point is reached with the birth of one's first child. I've got nothing against drinking but parents should show a bit of moderation.

Just my thoughts. I'm ready for your hammer and nails. Very Happy
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Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, Dutchman, you have finally written something I can agree with. I was wondering if the day would ever come. Must be our sober, repressive Netherlandic backgrounds, eh? I, too, dislike reading about parents drinking. It gives me the same nasty feeling as when I read the married male posters on here commenting on hot Korean girls. Of course it doesn't necessarily mean they are bad husbands or going to cheat on their wives, but it bothers me just the same.

If you are going to drink...leave your child in someone else's care.
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OiGirl



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an adult child of two alcoholics who was often taken to bars (US in the 1970s) and frequently had to be driven home from "family parties," as well as the usual verbal and ocasional physical abuse, I will say that if you are living a party lifestyle in front of your children, you are losing respect from and control over your children. You may not see the results of your behavior for a good 20 years, but there will be price to pay one day.

Edited for spelling by OiGirl
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kimcheeking
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are impaired, then your judgement about what your children are doing will be impaired and you are potentially endangering their lives. Time to get responsibility.

Getting drunk once in a while may be fine but like corporal said - get a babysitter for the night. Better yet, don't get drunk and teach your children, by example, how to drink. I have only seen my father drunk less than 10 times in my entire life. I have respect for him and have learned how to drink in moderation.
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princess



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: soul of Asia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am proud to say I have NEVER seen my parents drunk. They don't touch a drop of the stuff. They are very good Cristian people. I, on the other hand, do have a few drinks sometimes. I think it is terrible for parents to take their kids in bars. I have seen it a few times here in Seoul. I DO NOT like seeing kids come in bars. I also hate seeing a married couple in a bar geting smashed while they tell me they have a three year old girl at home. AND...what about playboy bartenders who are married with a baby and they keep on bartending and keeping their playboy lifestyle? I say stay single. Why get married if you are just going to play around with all these women? MEN....please get your demons out of your system BEFORE you marry some poor, nice girl who will have to put up with you or divorce you. I see and hear sad stuff all the time in Korea. The married woman with a three year old at home was also hiding from her husband as he kept trying to call her and she would not answer her phone. Finally, he came in the bar about two hours later and joined her. Pathetic!!! The women here play games and fool around here, too, not just the men. These people should NOT be parents.
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Walter Mitty



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: Tokyo! ^.^

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

princess wrote:
MEN....please get your demons out of your system BEFORE you marry some poor, nice girl who will have to put up with you or divorce you. I see and hear sad stuff all the time in Korea. The married woman with a three year old at home was also hiding from her husband as he kept trying to call her and she would not answer her phone. Finally, he came in the bar about two hours later and joined her. Pathetic!!! The women here play games and fool around here, too, not just the men. These people should NOT be parents.

Oh yes. It's only MEN who ever do such horrid things. Rolling Eyes There are no women who refuse to give up their party girl lifestyle after they get married and crank out a kid or two. Your admonition should be a tad more broad in its aim.
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Stunted Wookie



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Sound Studio

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:21 am    Post subject: baby Reply with quote

ahhh, a great topic!

Mrs. Wookie and I in our BX days (Before Xander) were fish. We enjoyed very much the social climate here in ROK.

A few points about being drunk around your kids....

Are you fucking stupid? *As a serious topic, do not edit the swearing MODs (read employees), its there to stress the situation*

Every parent I suspect sits back and has grand notions of what their child will become, or at least what opportunities they will have open to them.

What a great child rearing atmosphere to see daddy holding moms hair back while she pukes.

To be honest for us..we are far too tired now to go out drinking, or stay up past 12.
Kudos to you if you still have the drive to do that, you are blessed.

But if you haven't finished with the 12 beer minimum, then at least send junior to grandmas house, don't let them see you stagger....that's just not cool.

NOTE: Mods have no control over the filter, which we sometimes find at least as annoying as everyone else does. Rolling Eyes
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streetfightingman



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Cheju do

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

totally awesome thread dutchman, corporal, kimchiking, et all... so much useful truth and solid advice for new and old parents.

what it amounts to is that children look up to and mimic their parents behavior. what they see their parents do they interpret as the norm and the way they should and often feel expected to behave. Idea


Last edited by streetfightingman on Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Walter Mitty



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: Tokyo! ^.^

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: baby Reply with quote

Quote:
NOTE: Mods have no control over the filter, which we sometimes find at least as annoying as everyone else does. Rolling Eyes

If the mods find it annoying, do they object to filter bypassing? It's kind of retarded that it'll keep you from saying Dick Cheney in a political topic.

NOTE: If you want to do a little filter bypassing in the case of Mr. Cheney's name, no one will object. But, the same word used in a different context will warrant severe tsk tsking. Very Happy
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makushi



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UhÖas one of those parents who likes to imbibe from time to timeÖplease allow me to retort.

I donít see anything wrong with reading your kids a book, putting them in bed, and then cracking open a bottle.

Likewise, if for business or personal reasons, you occasionally meet outside for dinner and drinks and come home later after the kids are in bed, whatís the problem?

After my last adventure, I got home around 2:00AM was up at dawn, had breakfast, and then took the whole family to the jimjil-bang for three hours. Kids had a blast, wife was happy, and I recovered (sort of).

If you think being a good parent entails living as a teetotaler, and sheltering you kids from who and what you really are, I think you are living a lie.

That said, I donít think itís ďcoolĒ letting my kids see me drunk, and thus donít let them. However, they know I drink. So what?

Also, whenever we go to the grandparent's house, I, along with the other men in the family, usually spend a few hours sitting around eating squid etc., talking, and oh yea...drinking soju.

If anything, our behavior is mild and I notice the men generally become more affectionate towards the kids.

Nobody is dancing on the table, fighting, or howling at the moon.

And lastly, as any parent knows, there are soooo many different issues and aspects to parenting. Itís pretty myopic to focus on just one thing to judge a personís parenting.

In the current sterile PC world we are living in, too many times we tend to think being a good parent or citizen means hiding who we really are from ourselves and others. But most psychologists will agree.. that that is a recipe for disaster for both you and the ones you are trying to fool...in the end, we are only human, and the healthiest thing you can do for your kids is too teach them what that means...teach them to be comfortable with who they are and to be comfortable around others....IMHO
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Ody



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

makushi wrote:
UhÖas one of those parents who likes to imbibe from time to timeÖplease allow me to retort.

I donít see anything wrong with reading your kids a book, putting them in bed, and then cracking open a bottle.

Likewise, if for business or personal reasons, you occasionally meet outside for dinner and drinks and come home later after the kids are in bed, whatís the problem?

After my last adventure, I got home around 2:00AM was up at dawn, had breakfast, and then took the whole family to the jimjil-bang for three hours. Kids had a blast, wife was happy, and I recovered (sort of).

If you think being a good parent entails living as a teetotaler, and sheltering you kids from who and what you really are, I think you are living a lie.

That said, I donít think itís ďcoolĒ letting my kids see me drunk, and thus donít let them. However, they know I drink. So what?

Also, whenever we go to the grandparent's house, I, along with the other men in the family, usually spend a few hours sitting around eating squid etc., talking, and oh yea...drinking soju.

If anything, our behavior is mild and I notice the men generally become more affectionate towards the kids.

Nobody is dancing on the table, fighting, or howling at the moon.

And lastly, as any parent knows, there are soooo many different issues and aspects to parenting. Itís pretty myopic to focus on just one thing to judge a personís parenting.

In the current sterile PC world we are living in, too many times we tend to think being a good parent or citizen means hiding who we really are from ourselves and others. But most psychologists will agree.. that that is a recipe for disaster for both you and the ones you are trying to fool...in the end, we are only human, and the healthiest thing you can do for your kids is too teach them what that means...teach them to be comfortable with who they are and to be comfortable around others....IMHO


you took the words right out of my mouth. well stated.
as a side note, i think it wise that fellow parents difer from self rightious banter, lest they find themselves in the future, eating crow.
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makushi



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ody wrote:
i think it wise that fellow parents difer from self rightious banter, lest they find themselves in the future, eating crow.


As one who has eaten his fair share of crow....I consider this some very sound advice indeed....
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drunkards will be drunkards. Makushi is right: no one, not even a drunk, should hide who they really are from themselves or anyone else. But then, is it recommended that they prevent their kids from seeing them drunk? Who's fooling whom? Most children know when their parents are drunk. They hear and remember a lot more than parents often give them credit for.

The question is: How positive an experience is it for a child? This is a matter of degree. It sounds like Makushi is at one end and Oigirl's parents is somewhere toward the other end, though hopefully short of where outright abuse would be registered.

I too was dragged around to the parties and watched the behaviours of drunks, many of which are disturbing to a sober child. I had fun and I had fear. I wrote a poem about it when I was twelve and it's in the "waygook poetry" thread (I am the 'hat' in it).

It may seem to be okay with a child, but believe me and Oigirl, it sticks around long after the hangover.
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gomurr



Joined: 04 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you. My and I used to go out on weekends but as soon as we found out she was pregnant we stopped doing that. And now even a year after our son was born we have only went out once together without our son. babysitters who speak English, Cebuano or Tagalog are hard to find where we are. As for myself I only go out once a month if I'm lucky. I saw lots of Koreans bring their kids to Discos and bars. Once in kangnung I was at my favorite bar (long since closed), the Live Cow and saw a Korean couple with a 3 year kid and the kid was pissing under the table and all the Koreans around didn't do a thing about it.

When I lived in Cheong-Ju, one American teacher i met was a single mom with her daughter here. The mother went to China for 3 days and left her 3 year old daughter with her Korean boyfriend. The boyfriend took the kid to bars around the city. Not exactly a smart move on all sides.
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makushi



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that if you've ever watched a video tape of yourself acting drunk, it will pretty much cure you of letting your kids see you drunk.

My boyz treat me as their hero....and, while it's only a matter of time before they find out ole dad is a mere mortal...I don't want to burst their bubble too quickly by letting them see me smashed and acting like an idiot (as I have been known to do)....


Last edited by makushi on Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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