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Oriani · Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 208 Location: Venezuela

I didn't agree that that woman was sent to jail. I think she is a victim is this story!!!! Thank God I live under other rules!!!

EnglishRaven · Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:27 am Post subject:

As terrible as this news is, I can't say the approach to rape and rape victims in western countries is pure and perfect. Odd processes of law and tradition often punish western victims of rape as well.

The example in the news story is an extreme one, and horrible to hear. I would leave it at that, and not go pointing any self-righteous fingers based on respective cultures.

- Jason
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pugachevV · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2295

I don't think it's self righteous to point a finger at backward morons who sentence a raped woman to flogging. If more of us expressed our outrage, maybe these people would crawl out of the 7th century.

CP · Joined: 12 Jun 2006 Posts: 2875 Location: California

k.m.m · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 121 Location: Riyadh

waaaw ... very old , old news...

I know and we know as "Saudis citizens" know it was wrong ..but sometimes wrong things happened every where even in a very democratic counters..

Old news because the court and judge decision was canceled !! yes easy was canceled by the supreme court and the King him self !!

I think the judge is under question "may be he will resign" , I will do it if I were him, more than tow months ago was close that case after many local newspaper wrote about it , many e-mail ,letters sent to the supreme court . NOW nothing happened to here , and NOTHING will happened to here , she is in here house with here kids. all what has been issued by the this small court was canceled and judge room "office" closed!!!...

we know it was wrong , we know she was a victim !!

The lawyer is back to his business , as normal , it is not the judge of this small court who decide to stop his work ...

It was good that it happened because it focus our system and expose it if this case, it was wrong and not right.
It was good that happened from time to time to let people talk, write send e-mail letters, etc..to higher courts and supreme court..
It was good to be happened that all judges will be very carefully next time , because if they will do strange things ,all people they will say Gaaash ..Are you crazy ~~ even OUT SIDER THEY WILL SAY That was not fair , we remember Mr. Bush "before he came to Riyadh " he said ( what if that happened to my daughter) .It it is good to be happened because it will give some sick judges a good lesson that " be careful may be you will loose your job
how many sick / crazy cases happened �, Do I think it will be repeated , yes may be !! when ?? I don�t know because judges are people and people are human, they can do mistakes..But the good things that people, newspaper, lawyers, liberals people even the outsider world will say no..What you are doing is wrong Mr. judge..�sure he and many judges will not do it again.

kmm

CP · Joined: 12 Jun 2006 Posts: 2875 Location: California

So the rape victim did not receive any lashes? But the judge is still a judge because the King of Saudi Arabia reversed his decision?

Do you have a link to any news articles on these developments? Thanks in advance.

And may grown women drive cars now in Saudi Arabia? May a grown woman walk outside her house with a friend who is not a male relative? I am interested to know. Thank you.
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k.m.m · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 121 Location: Riyadh

The news from last year..

http://arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=104788&d=19&m=12&y=2007

CP · Joined: 12 Jun 2006 Posts: 2875 Location: California

Thank you for the link. According to the December 19, 2007 news story, in Arab News, the King Abdullah pardoned the girl even though he thought the verdicts were "just and fair," according to the justice minister:

Asheikh said on Monday to a Saudi local newspaper that the king �is convinced and trusts that the verdicts are just and fair.� But the king�s pardon read by the minister says that the pardon was �because the woman and the man who was with her were subject to torture and stubbornness that is considered in itself sufficient in disciplining both of them and to learn from the lesson.�

But the poor girl had already suffered enough, so he lifted the "just and fair" punishment. What a wonderful man. I bet the girl from Qatif won't sit in a car with a man who is not a close relative anytime soon, though!

I agree that being kidnaped and raped twice by seven men would drive home the point that a woman of 19 or any age should never sit in a car in broad daylight with a man who is not a close relative. What was she thinking, anyway?

The article also had an answer to my question about driving:

The recently formed Saudi Women�s Association, which petitioned for the right to drive in September, issued a statement yesterday thanking King Abdullah for recognizing the brutal nature of the crime and reversing the decision to punish the rape victim.

As one man who had lived a long time in Saudi Arabia put it, when I expressed surprise that women are not allowed to drive there: "Would you let your dog drive a car?"

Well, at least a dog can sit in a car without having a close male relative there.
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You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb

k.m.m · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 121 Location: Riyadh

If the man who lived in Saudi Arabia for long time who believed that our women is "DOGs" , this is a disaster and what he said is totally rejected because that women called dog in his language can be my wife or my sister and maybe my daughter !! Thanks to him, how nice to say that. (hahhaaa�may be due to some problem with his work "company" he has been kicked out from the country and still has the hate to that country )
If he want to link that to religion also totally rejected because many Moslems countries "may be all" have no problem from the religion point of you .
what I see is not like that I think it is a cultural problem , we know that the culture in that particular area is very closed and very slowly to be changed and accept new things.

Some Saudi officials and religious men agree with the women that Islam does not forbid women to drive. In the past, Saudi women were able to move freely on camel and horseback, and Bedouin women in the desert openly drive pickup trucks far from the public eye.
http://jewaira.wordpress.com/2007/09/19/say-yes-to-saudi-women-driving/

in 1990 during the golf war second a group of 47 women try to drive ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/28/world/middleeast/28drive.html

A founding member of the Committee of Demanders of Women's Right to Drive Cars, Fawzia al-Oyouni, said its electronic petition would highlight what many Saudi men and women consider a "stolen right".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7000499.stm

CP,thanks for reading.

kmm

CP · Joined: 12 Jun 2006 Posts: 2875 Location: California

I didn't say he believed your women are dogs. Why would you even say that?

The man wasn't kicked out of Saudi Arabia; he didn't hate it. He could have gone back to work in Saudi Arabia any time he wanted to, and he didn't harbor any grudges against his company or the country. He was merely expressing to me in blunt language why women were not allowed to drive there: They were not considered fit to drive, any more than a dog is fit to drive.

Women there are subjugated, stifled, no better than slaves. How would you like it if you could not walk across the street to visit your neighbor unless you had permission from someone else and had a close female relative willing to escort you?

As I said, at least a dog can sit in a car even if none of its male relatives are around. A woman can't.
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You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb

k.m.m · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 121 Location: Riyadh

Speaking of human not dogs:
just now , I came from out side , I saw many ladies "alone" may be going shopping to the malls or doctors going to work in hospitals or teachers going to their school , they are sitting in very luxury ,expensive American car with their drivers which are mostly Indian , Indonesian , sure not relative to them and no need to be their relative !!!, the driver is not a dog and of course they are not..

The question may be will be asked , Do all the families afford to hire driver for their family? how much ? how many billion of $ those familes spend every year?and why ? If this family can not ? what they will do ?why someone leave his family or his wife to sit a lone with a foringer driver? my be if she is driving a lone in side the city and during day time , it is better ?
Another good question , what if someone driving from Dammam to Riyadh 400km ,in that nice H.W. all the sudden the father /driver has a health problem , how he will drive to the nearest hospital ? Does his wife know how to drive?how about his doughter ? Does that happened ?
Are all ladies know how to drive ? may be I can answer that ,yes most of them including my family they know both ordinary and automatic.

cp,thanks for reading..

kmm

Bob S. · Joined: 29 Apr 2004 Posts: 1767 Location: So. Cal

k.m.m · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 121 Location: Riyadh