Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[sridatta]

God is with form or without form?

Do you think that we have to travel from clarity to confusion or from confusion to clarity? Anything becomes complicated when there is confusion. Anything becomes easy when there is clarity. Clarity is the real knowledge and confusion is the real ignorance. We must travel from ignorance to knowledge and not vice-versa. When you say that God is formless, there is no complication. God is like all pervading space or cosmic energy. A 10th class student who has studied physics can very easily understand this. But when a particular human being is declared as God the real complication arises, because He is looking like any human being. How this particular human being is God and every human being is not God? You have to analyze the internal form of the human incarnation and differentiate Him from an ordinary human being. Lot of logical analysis is required here only. Moreover egoism and jealousy attack immediately any one and due to this no body accepts a particular human being as God. Actually God is unimaginable and you cannot say that He has form or formless. He is not the space, which is formless. But you imagine Him like space. You have caught the space only in your imagination and not the real God. Somebody says that a peculiar animal in the forest called as Gavaya looks like cow, you have imagined only the cow and not the Gavaya animal. Unless you perceive God directly how can you imagine Him? Your imagination itself is nervous energy. Thus you perceive the unimaginable God through space and nervous energy. Both the space and nervous energy are parts of the creation. If you analyze the human body it is also energy occupying certain space.

Therefore, you perceive God through the medium of space and energy. A medium, which is a part of the creation, is essential to imagine the unimaginable God. Unimaginable is different from formless. Space is formless but not unimaginable. First you distinguish between these two. The Guru of your Sikh Religion is actually the human incarnation and worshipping Him is the real worship of God. The reason for your Guru not encouraging the human incarnation is that the fraud Gurus are claiming themselves as God. It is really difficult to recognize the real human incarnation in which, God dwells. Certainly there is a large probability of fraud persons who claim themselves as God and mislead you. But you should not run away from analyzing the genuine incarnation fearing for the fraud persons. Any system has loopholes. The system cannot be rejected due to the loopholes. One cannot avoid the train journey since there is a risk of accident. One cannot abolish the examination system because there is a probability of copying. One cannot abolish the administration offices of the Government, as there is probability of corruption.

There is a risk of artificial diamonds to be confused as original diamonds. Due to this will you avoid purchasing the necklace of original diamonds? You will take the help of an expert in selecting the original diamond. The human incarnation is the most convenient form for the worship and service. When you say that God is omni-potent it means that God has all powers. If He cannot come in human form, He is not having that power. Then He cannot be omni-potent. When He has the power to take the human incarnation, He has come in human form. Who are you to object that? He comes in human form for those devotees who are fond of worshipping Him through real service. They like to talk with God and live with God. They like to serve the God and see the pleasure in His face. They get full satisfaction by that. Therefore, God is in human form for such devotees only. Those who do not like the human form can worship God through formless inert items like space, energy etc. or inert forms like statues. But such worship is not the direct worship and it is only a representative worship. Neither space is God nor God is in the space. Similar is the case of a statue. Both formless space and formful statue stand as representatives of God only. Of-course God is pleased with the representative worship also, but the direct experience of God and the possibility of pleasing Him to the maximum extent are possible in the human body only.

A devotee asked a question about the possibility of talking with God directly. He should investigate the human incarnation at present and can talk directly. The procedure to identify the human incarnation based on the scriptures is extensively explained by Me in several answers to the questions that are placed in the web-site (www.universal-spirituality.org). One has to identify the present human incarnation using that procedure, in which the inseparable characteristics of God in the human incarnation are well explained. God is coming in human form in every human generation. If He had come only in a particular human generation God becomes partial to that generation only. God wants to talk with His devotees to please them by clearing all their doubts. This is the main purpose of the human incarnation of God. If you don�t believe the human incarnation you need not approach the human incarnation. But there is a devotee like Jyothi, who is very much anxious to talk with God. You can neither object her nor the God to take the human form. You carry on your representative worship. She is not objecting you. If you don�t want to purchase the original diamonds do not purchase. But you should not object a person who wants to purchase the original diamond. Thus God provided both the ways separately. You purchase the artificial diamonds and let somebody purchases the original diamond. Those who want to pray God without talking with God, let them have the representative worship having formless God or statues. Those who want to pray, talk and worship the living God, let them have the human incarnation. You should not object the desire of other devotee and also the God who is capable to fulfill the desire of that devotee.

Suppose some parents requested the management of a school to provide a park for waiting. The management is capable of doing so and it is the earnest desire of some parents. Suppose, there are some parents who do not like the facility of the park. They should not object those parents who want to use the facility of the park. They should also not oppose the management in the construction of the park. It is the duty of the management to inform the availability of the park so that any parent who ever desires to use that facility can use it apart from those parents who requested for it. If this general information is not provided to all the parents, some may ask the management regarding their negligence in informing the parents. Similarly, God comes in human form based on the prayers of some top most devotees to give direct experience. Through the human body the experience is not only direct but also complete. Such experience is not possible in the formless worship or in the worship of the statues. Such worship of formless God and statues is only a representative worship. It is just like worshipping the statue of the king and not the direct worship of the king. When you break a coconut near the statue, you can offer it by waving the hand and then eat it yourself. But when we break the coconut before the actual king, the king is fond of the pieces of coconut and will eat the entire coconut. When you want to avoid such inconvenience, you need not worship the human incarnation. You break the coconut before the statue and eat it yourself. But there is a fellow who wants to really offer the coconut to the king. He is pleased only when the king eats that coconut. He feels happy by seeing the happiness in the face of the king, while eating that coconut. What right you have to object such person? What right you have to object the king to come directly to eat that coconut for the happiness of a real devotee?

[pugachevV]

There is no god.

[sridatta]

[pugachevV]

No doubt a leaf derives its form from its DNA.
Where does God come into it?
Isn't it marvellous the way animals eat each other alive? What an unimaginable design - what a miraculous idea.

Is it really a miracle when someone walks away from a plane crash that kills a hundred people?
What kind of a miracle killed the hundred?
Just because we don't know the origins of our universe doesn't mean that god made it.

[sridatta]