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arianette
Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:43 am Post subject: We need a guide |
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I believe in God and I think that is necesary listen the voice of God.
We need a person to take control of our life and guide to the right way and that person only has to be God. |
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coffeedecafe
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 140
Location: michigan,usa
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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can you trust this guide?
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jazzie
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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If you put your life in the hands of a leader, especially a god, who "tells" you what do to, then you also give up the responsibility for your actions. And this cannot be, because I think everyone is responsible for what
(s)he does.
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coffeedecafe
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 140
Location: michigan,usa
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| jazzie wrote: |
| If you put your life in the hands of a leader, especially a god, who "tells" you what do to, then you also give up the responsibility for your actions. |
what if your god, though powerful, is infinitely polite and will work through you as you desire him to, moving back if you do not want his way, to let you discover that his way is best. are you not fully responsible for your actions, with or without his help?
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jazzie
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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The point I wanted to make was that if I make a mistake I can blame it on my god, because he decided that it had to happen this way. Arianette spoke of a leader who guides us along the right way and this implies that we follow the leader instead of the god follows us and gives way to our decision etc.
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coffeedecafe
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 140
Location: michigan,usa
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:05 am Post subject: the leader who follows |
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i think both my view and arianette are compatible.
she speaks of a god who is big enough to safely guide us through life while maintaining the universe.
i speak of a god who is able to distance himself and allow us the freedom to learn-much as a parent will anticipate the coming actions of a child before that child has yet fully made up his mind what he wants to do. if the child is in no danger and will enjoy the freedom and discovery the parent will not always interfere.
yet that parent will protect the loved child. so god chooses to act or not in our present lives from the knowledge of what will bring the most eternal good.
i hope i have not mistated arianette's position.
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jazzie
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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I understand Arianette's statement that we should give the control, which we have over our lives, to go. He shows us the right way which we should go, takes us by his hand and guides us along it. This, in my book, implies that we're kind of dependent on him.
You said in your last message that god allows us a certain freedom which leaves us enough space to discover the world on our own, so we're somehow independent of god. Then you add that god acts only if something negative is going to happen - correct me if I didn't get your thoughts.
I think I understand the point you make, but I don't see a similarity between your conception of a god and that of Arianette's. Besides, I don't believe there's a god who intervenes when something is about to go wrong.
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"You know, people seldom go to the trouble of scratching the surface of things to find the inner truth." James Stewart in The Shop Around The Corner |
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coffeedecafe
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 140
Location: michigan,usa
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| jazzie wrote: |
| I don't believe there's a god who intervenes when something is about to go wrong. |
...and you are right in that disbelief. especially if our concept of something going wrong is any event that we personally find unpleasant.
to go back to my loving parent example, a loving parent may allow a child to go through a lesser hurt to let that child learn a lesson which will in turn protect that child from a greater hurt, harm, or danger.
and to just desire there to be such a good god, without knowing of one whose rights to love and obedience are proveable would be sentiment.
the bible for one is available in many transalations free, just by giving your search engine the words free download bibles, or similar phrase.
and this book makes claims of a loving powerful creator who knows all things yet cares about us. a good reading of that book is very enlightening.
and this father of all sees things from an eternal point of view which is beyond our lifetime and understanding from begin to end.
also, god does not only act to prevent bad, but to anticipate and bring into existence good. he who creates is not only a cosmic policeman 
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