Site Search:
 
Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

under water or under the water?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Learning English
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
crliu



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 9:03 pm    Post subject: under water or under the water? Reply with quote

Which is correct?

I can hold my breath under the water for two minutes or

I can hold my breath under water for two minutes.


Please help, thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
obelix



Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 304

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both of them sound OK to me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
crliu



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do these two sentences have the same meaning?

Thanks for your reply, obelix.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dduck



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 109
Location: Scotland/Mexico

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: under water or under the water? Reply with quote

crliu wrote:
Which is correct?
I can hold my breath under the water for two minutes or
I can hold my breath under water for two minutes.


I think there is a subtle difference between these two sentences. If you were standing next to a pool, then both work. However if you were standing in the middle of the desert and you used the first example, some people would wonder "What water?" In this case "the water" is understood to refer to a particular body of water that the listener is familiar with". If there aint no water nearby you have a problem!

So in short, I'd say the second example is better.

Iain
_________________

Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself.
--Chinese Proverb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
crliu



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Iain. Your explanation is very clear. By the way, why people often say "The child can play the piano well", instead of "The child can play piano well"? Are both correct expressions?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bud



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 2111
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both are correct, but to my ears the first is more likely. I can't explain why, though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bud



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 2111
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both are correct, but to my ears the first is more likely. I can't explain why, though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lib



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Crliu,
At least in British English you use 'play' without 'the' for sports: We play basketball every evening. When he was younger he used to play football.
And we use 'play' with 'the' for musical instruments: Can you play the piano? He plays the guitar in a group.
I can't say if this is the same in American English, but I imagine it is. After all, they're not all that different.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
crliu



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Lib, for your usage rules. They are clear and easy to remember.

With regards to the "under water" question, is it also correct to say "I can hold my breath underwater for two minutes", using "underwater" as an adverb in the sentence? Does it express the same meaning as the previous two sentences? Is it preferable?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bud



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 2111
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, crliu, it is correct and it is probably the most natural way to say it.

Yes, Lib, that's how "to play" works in American English, too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
crliu



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, bud, for your reply.

Do the following sentences make sense?

Some drivers have a lot of accidents. They must pay closer attention to traffic while driving.

How do I know when to use "traffic" or "the traffic" in a phrase or sentence?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bud



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 2111
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, they are correct and they make sense. Still, I would probably make two changes: "... drivers get into a lot..." and "They should pay..."

"To get into an accident" is the typical way to express the thought of having a car accident. "To have an accident" could instead mean spilling your coffee in the car, although in context your sentence would not be confused.

I cannot explain why I prefer "should" to "must." It may just be a personal preference.

Also, I'll leave it to someone else to explain when to use "the" or "a/an" or nothing. For me, it would only be a guess.

Way to go, crliu. Your English is excellent.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dduck



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 109
Location: Scotland/Mexico

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bud wrote:
I cannot explain why I prefer "should" to "must." It may just be a personal preference.


You must fasten you seatbelt.

Some external person or group says that you need to fasten your seatbelt. It doesn't imply agreement on part of the speaker.

You should do you homework.

Whereas here, the speaker is expressing her/his own opinion that you need to do your homework.

Iain
_________________

Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself.
--Chinese Proverb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bud



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 2111
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great explanation, dduck. It makes sense now that you've said it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Learning English All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Dave's ESL Cafe is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Banner Advertising | Bookstore / Alta Books | FAQs | Articles | Interview with Dave
Copyright © 2018 Dave's ESL Cafe | All Rights Reserved | Contact Dave's ESL Cafe | Site Map

Teachers College, Columbia University: Train to Teach English Here or Abroad
SIT
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group