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To Dduck on Solutions.

 
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Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 4:13 pm    Post subject: To Dduck on Solutions. Reply with quote

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorism

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Diana wrote:
Terrorism will still increase even if we don't go to war against Iraq, Hala. The terrorists agenda is hate. They kill Americans and the west mainly because of Hate, and they will continue to kill us no matter what we do.


I disagree, if America became friendly towards the Arab nations and listened to the disquiet concerning the Israeli - Palestine issue most Arabs would welcome it and the general antipathy they currently have towards the US would dissapate. I don't claim it's likely to happen, only that it is possible.

Iain
_________________

Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself.
--Chinese Proverb


Dduck,
As I have already mentioned, many countries (including the U.S.) have heard and listened to the disquiet concerns of the Palestinians and Israelis and tried to come up with solutions.

I have read the British Mandate, the UN resolution and followed the Oslo Process. I also know the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and these are my solutions to the problem as I see it.

1. Call a cease-fire! And most importantly both sides must RESPECT that cease-fire. However, taking into account that the word "Cease-fire" is NOT in the vocabulary of these people and don't understand its meaning, I suggest that the UN come in and stationed guards to ensure that the cease-fire is respected on both sides.

2. Go back to the negiotation tables. Take out the Oslo Accords and start from there. And most importantly, get leaders who can actually negiotate and know something about compromise. (Face it - there are SOME people in this world who are weak in negiotating. Not ALL people, but SOME).

Now, Dduck, instead of criticizing my opinions as you constantly do, go study the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Then come back and tell me what you THINK should be a reasonable solution.
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Chris



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 4:04 pm    Post subject: Palestine & Israel Reply with quote

Israel won't ever accept some inspectors from an organization like the UN on their territory. It has already been proposed by some diplomats but Mr Sharon will exclude it. I've already written on this subject that the main issue was the land especially in the West Bank which is the simple basis of a "free" Palestinian state. Firstly, will Israel agree with the idea to leave the colonies which are often maintained by some radical religious squads? Frankly, I'm not sure for the majority of them after the results of the last elections even if a secular center right party has emerged and could make the difference. Secondly, are the Palestinians enough mature to create their own democracy with also their radical religious groups? Personally, I think it's impossible to create a real democracy with Islam. By the way, we don't hear anymore to the elections that could be organized in those territories???? I must acknowledge that the circumstances are most special.

Last edited by Chris on Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Palestine & Israel Reply with quote

[quote="Chris"]Israel won't ever accept some inspectors from an organization like the UN on their territory. It has already been proposed by some diplomats but Mr Sharon will exclude it.

Israel will accept it if the UN uses the same kind of "force" they are using on Iraq.

Firstly, will Israel agree with the idea to leave the colonies which are often maintained by some radical religious squads? Frankly, I'm not sure for the majority of them after the results of the last elections even if a secular center right party has emerged and could make the difference.

They will because the International community and the UN is in favor of creating a Palestine State. The only reason Sharon was re-elected is because a majority of Israelis don't trust the Palestinians after Arafat reneged on the peace process, and right now they feel that the Palestinians only want to kill them.

Secondly, are the Palestinians enough mature to create their own democracy with also their radical religious groups. Personally, I think it's impossible to create a real democracy with Islam.

To be honest, I don't think the Palestinians will create a democracy, but that's not Israel's problem. I say give them their Palestine State and build a Berlin Wall between Israel and Palestine.

By the way, we don't listen anymore about the elections that could be organized in those territories???? I must adknowledge that the circumstances are most special.

I haven't heard anything about the elections too, Chris. All I know is that Israel and the Palestinians are killing each other as usual. And the US and the UN have their hands tied at the moment with another Middle Eastern country.
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Chris



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 2:28 pm    Post subject: Down All the Berlin Walls: "Ich Bin Ein Berliner" Reply with quote

I'm not sure that you could use the same kind of force because the USA will veto it in the UN so I think that's not realistic. Mr Sharon doesn't care of the international community and I am able to understand him with the kind of fight he has to face there. Returning to the negotiating table is certainly the best thing but to discuss who with? If you don't have in front of you a legal power coming from elections it's like opening doors which are already opened. In brief it will lead you to nowhere. So a minimum of democracy is compulsory for the Palestinians to know with whom you are going to argue. Yasser Arafat has been most criticized especially on economical issues but building a wall between those two communities is absolutely misunderstandable if you want to reduce tensions with the economy. Commerce and money are certainly the best things to gather people around a table. Israel needs, especially for its agriculture, a cheaper workforce and the Palestinians must live like everybody on the economical point of view . If there's no solution for them, poverty will thrive on their side and the islamic parties already use it to expand their actions
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Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Down All the Berlin Walls: "Ich Bin Ein Berliner&am Reply with quote

Chris wrote:
I'm not sure that you could use the same kind of force because the USA will veto it in the UN so I think that's not realistic. Mr Sharon doesn't care of the international community and I am able to understand him with the kind of fight he has to face there. Returning to the negotiating table is certainly the best thing but to discuss who with? If you don't have in front of you a legal power coming from elections it's like opening doors which are already opened. In brief it will lead you to nowhere. So a minimum of democracy is compulsory for the Palestinians to know with whom you are going to argue. Yasser Arafat has been most criticized especially on economical issues but building a wall between those two communities is absolutely misunderstandable if you want to reduce tensions with the economy. Commerce and money are certainly the best things to gather people around a table. Israel needs, especially for its agriculture, a cheaper workforce and the Palestinians must live like everybody on the economical point of view . If there's no solution for them, poverty will thrive on their side and the islamic parties already use it to expand their actions


I agree with you, Chris. Yes, I know it is unrealistic in this point in time to use the same kind of force on Israel as they did on Iraq. But you have to admit, it would work if it is actually done. Smile

Returning to the negiotations table is the best thing for both Israel and the Palestinians. Of course, building a wall isn't going to help; however, these two need to be physically separated for a while until they can build trust between them. Right now, both sides have lost all control and are just killing each other. I think the best thing is to get the Palestinians occupied by rebuilding their Palestine State. Israel, on the other hand, can be kept occupied by relocating their citizens in the Jewish settlements as they proceed to dismantle these settlements on Palestinian territories. That should keep them out of each other's hair for a while while the peace process is going on.

Who should be the leader for the Palestinians in that negiotiating table is also another important factor toward peace. I agree that good leaders are needed. The leaders in the negiotiatins have to be willing to compromise for the sake of peace and for the lives of their people. And what they come up with must be viable for the economy of both Israel and Palestine. I think going back to the Oslo Accords is a good place to start in the negiotations table. From what I read in the Oslo Process, the Palestinians were looking forward to having economical ties with Israel after their Palestine State is created. It is possible for these two to live in peace side by side. A majority of the Palestinians actually want peace, and many people in Israel also want the same thing.
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Chris



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 1:47 pm    Post subject: A Confederation or a Federal State? Reply with quote

The example could come from the European Community called now the European Union. Look at what we've made without any war for the last 46 years. No conflict between the French and the Germans and our problems were solved by negotiations. Of course, all the things ain't perfect but at least the "old adversaries" (a Vladimir's quotation) are tied together. The confederation is certainly the first step to learn and begin to respect each other and when your aims are very close you can become a very united nation. That's what we're trying to achieve and I think it might be an example for Isreal and palestine.
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Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:07 pm    Post subject: Any help is good. Reply with quote

If you feel that the European Nations would be an excellent example for Israel and the Palestinians to find peace, then it is worth a try. I know it won't be easy for these two groups who have been fighting for over 50 years, but I also know that peace is possible.

The Japanese once occupied my island and massacred my people, but we have found peace with them. Therefore, it is possible for enemies to become friends.
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