Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[Diana]

Be careful of Hate sites and propogandas. There are many of them on the Internet. There is only one purpose of Hate sites and to these one-sided propogandas. Their purpose is to appeal to the emotions of people so they could get them to hate their intended targets. Who are the targets usually depends on the hate site. There are hate sites targeting Blacks and immigrants. There are also anti-semitic hate sites targeting Jews. There are also hate sites targeting Americans. There are many of them, and they target almost every race and religion on this planet.

Be careful of hate sites and propogandas. In this day and age of great technology, it is always easy to fake images and photos. Images and photos can also even be taken out of context or even be misrepresented. Beward of this and use keen judgement. Hate sites and propogandas twist the truth, and they allow you to see only what they want you to see. They only tell one side and allow you to see only one side. One hate site, for example, listed down all the atrocities that Americans committed. The occupation of my island is also listed on that hate site. It is true that my island is considered "occupied" territory or a colony of the United States. However, NO atrocities were committed on my island by the Americans. I know because I am Chamorro, and I know the history of my people. They twisted the truth. The Americans did not kill any Chamorros. It was the Spanish and the Japanese who massacred my people. This is what I mean about hate sites. They don't tell the entire truth. Hate sites are created by racists who twist the truth and only allow you to see what they want you to see. Beware of them!

[Chris]

Diana has launched here one aspect of our most modern and overinformed societies in which several groups want to keep up certain ideas which are often against our democratic principles. But sometimes propaganda is used by our officials for some hidden goals or to divide or break any oppositions that you can find in all organized free structures. �Control in the mind and the body� is the main aim of several folks to reinforce their economical and of course their political power.

All the recent development of what occured lately about all the Iraki affair is a good example of the lack of discernment that many individuals can feel on behalf of nationalism or the pride of a great nation. When a country doesn't like the opposition, it is certainly the best target for this kind of action.

Mixing the gendars, confusing the historical points of view, raising stereotyped thoughts, that�s what I saw and read in a �certain� Saxon press last week. Maybe, I made a mistake or I was blind but the �NY Post� or �the Sun� were very close to the �nationalfront� dot com.

Firstly, before taking for target a legitimate government elsewhere which follows exactly the main feeling of his people �The Post� would be aware to ask itself of the American economical situation which could account for her foreign policy. Secondly, �the Sun� which isn't worth a penny apart maybe the girl in the third page has certainly indulged all the Albion�s jelly bellies with a brain of a soccer supporter but not the major part of the British crowd. Before that the battle takes place on the ground, the words will still have their biggest importance. No, the game is not over.........

--
�We can judge of the intelligence of a lord by seeing the people who are surrounding him�

�The Prince� Nicolas Machiavel

[obelix]

The trouble with freedom of speech is that it applies to all those rotten people we don't agree with as well!

[Chris]

There's no trouble with free speech. They have expressed some opinions and personally I'm in favor of a non limited practice of it.

[wing]

[Thom]

Hi wing,

Dont you remember when Hala posted on here saying that 1000 jews hadnt turned up for work at the twin towers on 11/9/01?

She had read on some hate site that the whole thing was a conspiracy Organised by "Isreal and their US puppets" to find an excuse for bombing the Muslim nations.

Someone was posting that kind of crap on the internet to fool the guilible. That is the kind of thing we could do without.

Similarly, other noted propagandists have used speeches broadcast on TV to fool the gulible into thinking that Saddam Hussein was involved with al-quieda and the 9/11 so as to drum up support for a war.

[obelix]

Wing,
Sometimes you have to read between the lines and not take everything literally.

There is no trouble with free speech. It was just a touch of irony.
Many people who demand the right to say what they want are offended when someone else says something they do not like.
No more; no less.

[wing]

I just think that withdrawal of free speech is never for the sake of rotten people or disgusting propagandists.

[ilya]

Are we childs? Why do we should be scared of some propagand sites? Becouse they have other opinions? Life is not black and white. Everybody has his own opinion. He said or wrote what he had wanted to say or believed. You read that and if you disagreed you could try to make change his mind. If he wrote rubbish nobody makes you believe it.
I want to know every opinion. And that gives me possibility to come to a right conclusion what`s the right, who is the right. And if one man tells me "Don`t lesson to them, their words are poison, and they are an evil", i want to know why. Am i stupid? Why don`t you tell me everything? Or you are scared that they are not worse than you?.
There is no chanall or newspaper without propagand. Every man is propagandist and try to make us sure in something. If we are clever people that only right words will get in our minds and wrong words will stay outside our ears.
We should grow our children giving them all the truth what is going on in the world and show them why this stuff is right and this is not. And when a bad guy on the streets or in Internet tell him "Let`s go robbing somebody or something else" your child will not go becouse not he heard that thing was bad but becouse he had known why this thing was bad and he believed in that with all his heart.

[pugachevV]

I agree with you Ilya. We are all quite capable of making up our own minds about things we are told and if we are not lazy we can find out which things we are told are true and which are not.
The trouble with propaganda is that one of its favourite techniques is the "big lie" which tells a huge lie that is hard to disprove without very diligent investigation. Governments use this a lot because they are presumed to have information, via their secret services, which we cannot verify. The example quoted above about the 1000 jews not showing up for work on the day the twin towers were destroyed is an example of this.
You can see how hard it would be to verify it. In Islam, though, it is taken as the literal truth.
In Canada, at this moment, there is a man who says he believes the holocaust did not happen. They are trying to deport him to Germany, accusing him of hate crimes. Most of us would agree that what he is saying is nonsense but what if he sincerely believes what he is saying?
We either have free speech, or we don't.

[Corey]

Everyone needs to read with a critical eye, no matter if the source is CNN or some small website. There is a little truth in everything and a little lie too.

Personally, I feel it is a double-edge sword that hate sites exist. On one hand we can see that this type of thing really exists and so we can fight it. On the other hand, we have to hope it doesn't reach the gullible.

Corey
http://english.abcingles.net
_________________
Niagara Summer Programs

[Diana]

I agree with you in that everyone needs to read with a critical eye. Unfortunately, not everyone does. Hate sites are the worst and they can easily twist the truth around.

Propoganda and hate sites have reached some gullible people. What bothers me is when young people get into these sites. Young people are very impressionable and can easily be swayed into all the hate. Young people need to taught to keep an open mind and not always believe everything they read. They also need to be taught not to be lazy and do some investigative work to find the truth.

[ilya]

Why don`t we want some people to read articles propaganding violence, murders, terrorism and other bad things? Becouse they can believe that the world should be the other one, with terrorism. On my opinion it`s useless to limit access to information. I mean for adult people it`s useless, becouse he wouldn`t become a terrorist if he doesn`t want. And if he wants he will become a terrorist reading some propagand or not reading.
And the question is why he wants to hurt somebody. I don`t want. do you want? no.
So, we don`t want to lesson to any propagand connected with a terrorism. For what?
And who is in trouble, whose relatives were killed and nobody has been punished for that, he would revenge in as a way as he could. Let`s find sources of existing of terrorism.
Children shouldn`t watch any wrong things connected with violence, terrorism, sex without their parents who would tell them these things are wrong. You can hide your children in a closet not speaking about cruel outside, but when they go out they wouldn`t be able to resist any threat. Yes, of course, children should always be careful as they have no idea in what world they live.

[Diana]

I never said that we should limit freedom of speech. I actually believe in free speech and free access to information. I only said that we should be careful of propogandas and hate sites. I never said to stay away from them, but I tell people to beware of these sites because they twist the truth around. People should always be critical of what they read and should ask questions. Unfortunately, not all people are critical of what they read and won't even bother to do any investigative work on the information.

[ilya]

The American government and mass-media are the best propagandists in the world. And terrorists were tought how to impress at minds of people by american mass-media. American Mass-media twisted all over the world around its finger. All the world eat hamburgers, watch american blockbusters and do what american mass-media wants.
Is it good for minds to watch stupid movies like the "Spider Man", then go to Mc`Donalds to eat some cholesterol fast food? Nobody realizes in weak developed countries that america live becouse bulgarians, ukranians buy Coca-Cola, humburgers and the american life style ruins their owns. America advertises its life style to everybody, and they have already come with its life style in Iraq.
Diana, don`t you think people should be careful with your american propagand the most? It`s not democratic way, we see how americans pave the democratic road, with bombs breaking the law. All Europe become democratic, there has been nothing to teach already there, but you went there with your life style propaganding the lieing on a coach with a humburger in a mouth. You don`t know what`s happenning out of America, who was the Napoleon. I`m happy that the first american girl said that we should be careful with a propagand. American?
You will shout "Let`s go to Iran and Siria" only having lessonned "Usama was seen there". And you would be told this by mass media. They would tell how many terrorists there, and that sirians and irans should taste a smell of bombs. And you would shout "Let`s kick them at asses".