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God is the most important in my life
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RedRose



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outofin wrote:
Religion is the opium of weak minds. It does as good as opium does to your body. It makes you feel happy, but dumb.


Totally agree!!!

Outofin, I guess you are an atheist too, ain't ya?
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RedRose



Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: GuangZhou, China

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beancurdturtle wrote:
ad-miral wrote:
You know, the most important is not whether you believe or not. 1. If you are a bad guy, a religion can't make you to a good guy, neither. 2. You don't need to have a religion to say that you are a good guy.
Think about 1 and 2

Well said sir.


or you can say: "well said boy". because Admiral is too young to be a sir Very Happy
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garfield_jesse



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedRose wrote:

or you can say: "well said boy". because Admiral is too young to be a sir Very Happy

Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green
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ad-miral



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 1488

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
or you can say: "well said boy". because Admiral is too young to be a sir


Laughing Laughing Laughing OMG! You are the only one who revives this point again and again! Mr. Green Are you jealous because I'm young??? Mr. Green
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RedRose



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ad-miral wrote:

Laughing Laughing Laughing OMG! You are the only one who revives this point again and again! Mr. Green Are you jealous because I'm young??? Mr. Green


You can say that again!! you know, if I was as young as you, I could seduce more guys. That'd be great! Laughing
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ad-miral



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 1488

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm happy she is not a girl like the young you, seducing guys. Laughing
But as she is so beautiful I'm sometimes afraid of it. Laughing
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Sarraa



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 48
Location: Leicestershire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Religion is the opium of weak minds. It does as good as opium does to your body. It makes you feel happy, but dumb.


Have you had a religion before, Outofin? I'm assuming you have, since you seem to know how a person with a religion feels and how he doesn't feel.
I have a religion, and I don't believe I am weak-minded, nor do I feel 'dumb', as you put it. I am devoted to it yes, but that is another thing.
You seem to think that every religion gives this completely-out-of-this-world sensation, and that everything about it is not related to this world, which isn't true, not all religions are like that.
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jvegap223



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Costa Rica

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, which God do you believe in? the Abrahamic God? The Hindu Gods? Maybe Taoist religion's Hero/Ancestor Gods?[/quote]

to give you an especific answer, Abraham´s God. For me is the unique God.
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jvegap223



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Costa Rica

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you Saraa, In my church I work with youngers, and when I see how God transform their problematic and destroy lifes, in this moments I know that God exist and its real.

I´m evangelican, but Jesus is my religion.
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RedRose



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvegap223 wrote:
and when I see how God transform their problematic and destroy lifes, in this moments I know that God exist and its real.


I doubt that.
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jvegap223



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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Location: Costa Rica

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Why Reply with quote

RedRose wrote:
jvegap223 wrote:
and when I see how God transform their problematic and destroy lifes, in this moments I know that God exist and its real.


I doubt that.



Why RedRose?
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beancurdturtle



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedRose wrote:
jvegap223 wrote:
and when I see how God transform their problematic and destroy lifes, in this moments I know that God exist and its real.


I doubt that.

This is an issue of standard of proof. A believer observes a person's life improve because they develop the attitude, discipline, and behavior required by a religion. A believer believes that this change results from God's influence on the person because the person accepted religion. A believer observes the change in the person and concludes that God has to exist in order for the profound change observed to take place.

However, you and I would consider this differently. Our standard of proof is logic or reason based instead of faith based. We would consider that it is possible for a person to change their attitude, discipline, and behavior by conscious choice. If a person decides to change, and puts the change into effect, then they can change. Therefore, change in a person proves that the person has decided to change - nothing more and nothing less.

Religion can provide a framework and standard for attitude, discipline, and behavior that can improve a person's life - especially if they previously had no standards or made wrong decisions. In this way, religion can be a very positive influence on a person's life. But it does not prove the existence of God. Especially if you consider that many different religions, even Godless religions, can have a good influence on a person. So this, RedRose, supports your statement of doubt.

Religion might provide the motivation for making right decisions. Philosophy, like Taoism, may provide a guide for making right decisions. Societal standards may create pressure to make right decisions. Or perhaps some few people may just be born with a grace of spirit that makes right decisions natural to them. It all comes down to making right decisions.

If the end product is good people making right decisions, I can't argue with the motivation that guides a person to that end. But I could argue that good people making right decisions does not prove the existence of God.

Peace,
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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”
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jvegap223



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Costa Rica

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beancurdturtle wrote:
RedRose wrote:
jvegap223 wrote:
and when I see how God transform their problematic and destroy lifes, in this moments I know that God exist and its real.


I doubt that.

This is an issue of standard of proof. A believer observes a person's life improve because they develop the attitude, discipline, and behavior required by a religion. A believer believes that this change results from God's influence on the person because the person accepted religion. A believer observes the change in the person and concludes that God has to exist in order for the profound change observed to take place.

However, you and I would consider this differently. Our standard of proof is logic or reason based instead of faith based. We would consider that it is possible for a person to change their attitude, discipline, and behavior by conscious choice. If a person decides to change, and puts the change into effect, then they can change. Therefore, change in a person proves that the person has decided to change - nothing more and nothing less.

Religion can provide a framework and standard for attitude, discipline, and behavior that can improve a person's life - especially if they previously had no standards or made wrong decisions. In this way, religion can be a very positive influence on a person's life. But it does not prove the existence of God. Especially if you consider that many different religions, even Godless religions, can have a good influence on a person. So this, RedRose, supports your statement of doubt.

Religion might provide the motivation for making right decisions. Philosophy, like Taoism, may provide a guide for making right decisions. Societal standards may create pressure to make right decisions. Or perhaps some few people may just be born with a grace of spirit that makes right decisions natural to them. It all comes down to making right decisions.

If the end product is good people making right decisions, I can't argue with the motivation that guides a person to that end. But I could argue that good people making right decisions does not prove the existence of God.

Peace,



Well, people need to take the decisions to change their life. But when God is betwen the decision and me, all works in the right way.

Religion is a big word, because around the world exist a lot of kind of religions. And I think that the mayority are wrong in their philosophyes.

When you wrote that -Religion might provide the motivation for making right decisions-, what is right decisions for you? Because, this right decision will be a wrong decision in the future if the person put a God in a second place, this is my point of view.

Wink Wink Wink Very Happy Very Happy Laughing Laughing Razz Razz Smile Smile Smile Very Happy Very Happy Wink


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RedRose



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvegap223 wrote:
When you wrote that -Religion might provide the motivation for making right decisions-, what is right decisions for you? Because, this right decision will be a wrong decision in the future if the person put a God in a second place, this is my point of view.


How come you know the right decision will be a wrong one if I put God in a second place? (actually, I put God nowhere) you are extrmely religious, you are trying to force people to agree with you when you can't completely prove your own viewpoints.

Yeah, that's just your own point of view, not mine.
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beancurdturtle



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvegap223 wrote:

Well, people need to take the decisions to change their life. But when God is betwen the decision and me, all works in the right way.

Well, it's a blessing that your belief that there is a God helps you make good decisions.

jvegap223 wrote:

Religion is a big word, because around the world exist a lot of kind of religions. And I think that the mayority are wrong in their philosophyes.

Of course you believe your religion is right, and other religions are wrong. How else could you accept it and have faith in your convictions?

But can you prove that your religion is right? Or can you prove that other religions are wrong? Or more fundamentally, can you prove that God exists?

I suppose it's OK to believe you are right if you still respect and do not judge others wrong. After all, their beliefs are based in personal faith just as your belief is - and therefore just as credible.

jvegap223 wrote:

When you wrote that -Religion might provide the motivation for making right decisions-, what is right decisions for you? Because, this right decision will be a wrong decision in the future if the person put a God in a second place, this is my point of view.

In this case when I say "right" I do not mean "correct." I mean decisions that result in actions of integrity and benevolence. More like righteous decisions - but "righteous" is too big a word.

I discussed this earlier in another posting. Here are my standards and self expectation to help me decide what is a right decision:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/student/viewtopic.php?p=89024#89024

Lets assume that God plays no part (not even second place) in my decisions, yet my decisions result in me meeting the standards I have for myself in the link above. Would you still say my decisions were wrong decisions?
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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”
--Dr. Seuss
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