Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[ontheway]

During these weeks ,Janpanese minister doubted again and again about Military brothels in World War ll which had been confirmed by the World court in the end of the World War ll. I feel so disgusted about the voice from a country thought to be beautifull and industrial developed.
Monster's deeds had been taken by Old Japenese military to most asia people and even the people of US and Europe, which can not be doubted.
Even to me,I have got so many stories from my grandfather and gramma about Old Japan devil. The tears and blood is still visible and provable by now.
A good country is not one never makes mistakes,but one can confess from them and do even better .Why can not Japan be a Man like Germany which has been forgived by his neighbors and other countries he hurted. How dare Japan to imagine a Political supercountry in the world .
If you wanna know about a man , get it form his neighbor.

[+Immune+]

[ontheway]

Thanks for your reply.I think we are communicating ,but not quarreling.I have to say sorry for my unmannered words. However,I preserve my standpoint.
You said "The Germans have never apologized for their actions during II World War.". I have to say "appologize" does not only mean words or speech but actions.
When have you seen a German worshiping or kneeling for Nazy or Hitler in public,but Japanese do. when have you seen a japanese minister kneeling before Monument of asia deaths caused by old Japan,but Germans did.
Willy Brandt ,1970's German president,made a visit to Porland Brandt's visit will be remembered as a gesture of German contrition for crimes committed against Poland's Jewish population during World War II, when he knelt down in front of the Monument of the Warsaw Ghetto Heroes.
I have to recall u that Honored Willy Brandt ,a president ,representitive for a country,was not a Nazy ,but in the opposite ,he was a anti-Nazy.Why did he Kneel for the guilty not caused by him.
History is just like this. We angered not cos the hatred,but because the fear of redisplaying the history. So many people died in the war,chinese ,Korean ,Filipino ,American and Japanese.Why did Japanese worship the devil in the holy temple? I deeply puzzled. It's his own affair? I am afaid not.
Please respect the deaths ,even not caused by you.

[wiwi]

i don't think japan should apologize for the cause of world war 2,japan had received the punishment already,the atomic bomb at hiroshima and nagasaki had almost destroyed this two islands even till today the radiation effect is still brought along through generations,why u can't think?how many innocents had been killed in this war and the effect is still brought through generations even after 62 years!many of the babies there were born with a poor health state,isn't the america was too harsh to bom this 2 islands?let bygones be bygones,there will be no ending of pointing finger to who should be blamed,remember when u point a index finger to other,four of your fingers pointed back to your direction.
_________________
your life,your choice
choose the best for yourself
coz u deserve it!

[asterix]

You can see Germans honouring their dead soldiers in places in Germany and at war cemeteries in France.
In some cases they honour their dead alongside the men they fought against - who are also homouring their own dead.
In Europe, they suck it up and get on with their lives.
What is the point of dredging up old grudges about long past atrocities? It does not lead to peaceful co-existence.
It would be more useful to forgive your old enemies and extend the hand of friendship to them.
Almost everyone who took part in WW2 is dead, or soon will be, so the whole thing is pointless, but probably is encouraged by some government to distract attention from its own shortcomings.

[hoshi]

[wiwi]

i mean the radiation at those 2 islands,hiroshima and nagasaki are much higher compared to the other part of japan. ,well we should not luve in past hatred and grudges,the point for learning history is not for blaming here and there for a war caused,but to learn from mistakes that war should not taken place at all.
_________________
your life,your choice
choose the best for yourself
coz u deserve it!

[ontheway]

I don't think Japan had got any punishment for the war. Someone may mention the atomic bomb, which is cost of the war,not the punishment.
because there was no reparations, no division, even no truly appologize,but got much help from their enemies ,US and their neighbors.

Dont get me wrong, I am arguing against , never the japanese soldiers in the war, but the war criminals and the spirit of Nazy which are still worshiped by some of Japanese, including some political ministers. Is it unreasonable that victims want to get their appologize?

That is all right that we should set more to the future . But we still have to check out what the future is.
During 50 years after the war, Japan has got great development in economy and politic. And it had got great identification from their neighbors and victims which suffered in the war. Why do we recall this unpleased events ? Because we can see the old Japan has been gradually penetrated to this new and developed Japan. No exaggerate to say, the spirit of Nazy has come back. Look at the realationship of Japan and his neighbors.If we don not fight against it , the future will definitely be, another world war ll.


Japan is one of the exellent nations in the world. It has great enegy in economy ,politic, Democracy, and also the war if happen. We can not avoid all the conflicts in the world , but we can choose to avoid bigger one. Asking for appologize , not because we want to be Japanese enemies, but friends which can last forever.

[+Immune+]

Ontheway, I might be wrong but it appears that every single word of yours is spoiled with a great feeling of enviousness. I don't think that Japan has become one of the world most developed and powerful countries because of II World War. Some politicians and historians were pretty certain Japan would not be able to stand up and regain its former strength after USA has dropped two nuclear bombs on two Japanese cities. Contrary to all expectations and prospects after the war, it is now economically sustainable and independent which is a proof of an incredibly hard work done out there.
To be honest, I can't make out your point of view. You listed the examples of people and governments that have apologized for the actions they were not responsible for, in order to underline that such attitude had never been seen among Japanese. In addition you stress afterward that the words of apologize are not enough and the real proof of humble intensions is agreeing with the defeated side. Do you really think that the best and righteous way to solve this matter is to find all of the people who are responsible for military actions during the war and sentence them to life or even threaten with the death penalty and eventually execute for committed crime? Needless to say, 99% of them are already dead, as Asterix had previously written.

I can see nothing here but a willingness of taking part in a perpetual vendetta. You want to punish all the guilty ones left? Maybe it would be a good idea if you kill all of their children and relatives as well, burn their houses and towns they live in to the ground and celebrate on their funerals as an act of vengeance. You see, it is believed that there is no easier thing than condemning people and their actions. Instead you can forgive them but it requires great courage, bravery and spirit. I don�t mean to forget about the terrible things we have suffered from them and pretend nothing had happened but just to be willing to understand somebody�s fault. We are all humans, none of us is perfect and everybody makes some mistakes from time to time. Instead of complaining about redisplaying history by others, firstly, we should judge ourselves�
_________________
"Understand that hapiness is not based on possesions, power or prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect"

Well, um.. "Never open the refrigerator when you're bored"

[Bob S.]

[ontheway]

!! I have to focus here again that I am not natioanalist , even I did not ever stand on a sigle nation . I am standing on the people suffered by Nazi who are bound to be respected.

!! I need to announce again that Japanese People who want peace. dead and left, are victims who should not be blamed for. It should be blamed that the politician and group who worship Nazi and war criminals and deny their crime .

+Immune+, can you list out what I am envying for?
Is it your justice view that Nazy and war criminals should be worshiped who had been sentenced guity by the whole world? Is it your justice view that dead and alive who suffered by Nazi nations has no need to be respected ? Is it your justice view that dening sin old story of Nazi's is reasonable to be ignored ????

[+Immune+]

To begin with, I want to underscore that I am polish if somebody has not figured that out yet. I do not write that in order to show how great loss we suffered during the Second World War and what consequences we had to bear because of it. It is not a feeling of presumptuousness, pride or haughtiness either. I intend to emphasize how difficult it is for me to be of opinion that we should forgive our persecutors and start over. Why do I say that? Probably because I do not believe in people�s honesty and justice. I have been chewing the problem since we started this discussion and I have come to realize that punishing all of the war criminals is simply impossible and unreal. Of course, you may bring forward a counter-argument that it is obvious we are not able to find and judge all of them but at least try to do it. I will tell you one thing, just think of hitherto actions of international organizations and value their work. Nuremberg Trials? It was nothing but a farce and a way of maintaining a clear conscience. The only nation which could successfully fight for its rights and restoration of dignity were the Israelis. But again, was the trail of Adolf Eichmann moral and according to an international law � correct in a way it was conducted? This issue is not as one-sided as it seems to be at first sight. We often forget about providing valuable proofs and instead, we base on our feelings and beliefs. How can we be capable of making a judgement who was more responsible than others? Who committed a crime, a soldier who shot a pregnant woman or a commander who gave such order but had never taken aim at anyone?

That is why I am convinced we should stop enumerating the costs of war and at long last start a process of reconciliation. We are obliged by our forefathers to remember but also, as we are all humans, to be forgiving.

[hoshi]

[ad-miral]

[asterix]

I'm impressed by your command of English, Immune and you are talking good sense.
The problem with history is that it is written by the victors.
In every war there are war criminals on both sides, but the victors do not acknowledge it because, "to the victor, the spoils".
The only way this will EVER change is to avoid war altogether, but we are humans, and we seem to be unable to do that, so we try and fight wars according to some rules that politicians have thought up, to make it more palatable somehow to our religiously inspired consciences.
Should there be rules for something as vicious as war?
There's no good way to kill someone with the weapons we have now, but perhaps, if there were no rules, war might be seen as too terrible to contemplate.