|
Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Philo Kevetch
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 564
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Dearest Red Rose -
Thanks for the chuckle - "..... with some body juice."
As salacious as ever!
Your most ardent fan - Philo;) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
RedRose
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ltp-008 wrote: |
| ad-miral wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Or Itp-008 isn't a real China-fan. I guess she or her grandmother or her mother was raped by Chinese men. that may explain her hatred towards China. if my guess is wrong, then sorry, Itp-008. |
 What a guess. If you take the other postings of her into account, this guess really seems possible |
You shouldn't have lost your dignity , if you don't agree with me on my other posts being a gentleman to debate, insulting and slandering others don't make someone more powerful and successful, hope you can know this basic principle for being a real gentleman. |
Well-said!! Itp-008!! insulting other dosen't make you more powerful and successful. that's why you are unsuccessful! just see how you insulted Beancurdturtle by calling him a jerk honey, I also hope you can know this basic principle for being a smart one |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RedRose
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Philo Kevetch wrote: |
Dearest Red Rose -
Thanks for the chuckle - "..... with some body juice."
As salacious as ever!
Your most ardent fan - Philo;) |
Thanks a lot, dear fan!! but....maybe your compliments will iritate Itp-008. I hope dear Itp-008 is ok with all people who love me |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RedRose
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ltp-008 wrote: |
"honestly you are a jerk whom I have ever seen in this forum, please don't be too inferior, you can improve yourself when you grow up, however if you are naturely lack of human quality you will never become a smart guy."
This is what I exactly think about you, hope you can improve yourself in the future, if you felt being offended, I am sorry for this, sometimes you twisted other people's words for your own purposes, sometimes you offended others you pretend not to realize them, so you need to learn a lot of Moral Verse, hope you can really understand what Louzi said in his Moral Verse. Good luck. |
Honey, on this forum, so many people love Turtle and his posts, but very few people love you(maybe no one but yourself). why?? because Turtle is a jerk?? that's ridiculous! and IMHO, it's you who twist people's opinions and your own heart.
PS: Please go through the first page of this thread, I just don't want you to miss those sincere words and earnest wishes for you, you know, those posts can help you become less unreasonable and a little more peaceful, as long as you seriously read them and understand why you are so narrow-minded and unreasonable. Good luck, sweetheart. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CP
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 2875
Location: California
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dear Itp-008:
I don't understand why you are calling Bean Curd Turtle a jerk and all that. I don't know him except by reading his posts, but he seems to be intelligent, thoughtful, insightful, fair, good-natured, and reasonable about, oh, 85% of the time. The other 15% he's humorous.
If that's your definition of a jerk, then you need to let people know ahead of time. Otherwise, it sounds as though you are insulting Mr. Turtle, and that reflects poorly on you.
You can do better than that.
_________________
You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ltp-008
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 258
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CP wrote: |
Dear Itp-008:
I don't understand why you are calling Bean Curd Turtle a jerk and all that. I don't know him except by reading his posts, but he seems to be intelligent, thoughtful, insightful, fair, good-natured, and reasonable about, oh, 85% of the time. The other 15% he's humorous.
If that's your definition of a jerk, then you need to let people know ahead of time. Otherwise, it sounds as though you are insulting Mr. Turtle, and that reflects poorly on you.
You can do better than that. |
I didn't read very much about his posts, even though you regarded that 85 percent of time Mr. Turble was an intelligent , thoughtful , insightful, fair , good-natured and reasonable gentleman , I don't have much time to read his posts and study him further and so I can agree with you on your statement unless I read his most of posts which is impossible for me.
About the 15 percent of time you regarded him as a humorous guy I also don't agree, we had a few arguments in this forum his behaviors and personality really just like a jerk, so no matter how you think about him, in my mind he is just a jerk. he can do better than thas , and so do you~ lol |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RedRose
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ltp-008 wrote: |
| I didn't read very much about his posts, even though you regarded that 85 percent of time Mr. Turble was an intelligent , thoughtful , insightful, fair , good-natured and reasonable gentleman , I don't have much time to read his posts and study him further and so I can agree with you on your statement unless I read his most of posts which is impossible for me. |
You didn't read much about turtle's posts??? haha! Miss Liar!!! He has beaten you for months since you started posting twisted ideas and unreasonable posts I am sure you've studied him deeply to try to work out how to take a revenge on him! But you lost everytime!! That's why you called him a jerk after you failed again and again!
| ltp-008 wrote: |
| About the 15 percent of time you regarded him as a humorous guy I also don't agree, we had a few arguments in this forum his behaviors and personality really just like a jerk, so no matter how you think about him, in my mind he is just a jerk. he can do better than thas , and so do you~ lol |
You insult Turtle, that makes you look exactly like a funny baby I suggest you listen to CP and change yourself a little bit. you think CP can do better? you are nuts. we all know both Turtle and CP are smart and kind and reasonable. you surely have a problem with intelligent people. Again, your heart is sooo dirty. you are jealous of Turtle and CP because they are a lot more popular than you. it kills you that you lose every debate and you see all people frown on your bad behavior and silly words |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
beancurdturtle
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dear ltp-008,
I know we have argued some points. And I get the feeling that you have felt insulted or belittled by my way of argumentation.
I have explained that I never intend insult or emotional injury - even though I have argued points very vigorously.
And though I have questioned your facts and your sources of information, and I often disagree with your opinion - I don't think it's constructive for either of us to be insulting, hateful, or negative.
Some people here have strong feelings and opinions, you are one of them. If I respond to your posts in the future, I hope you can accept it in the spirit intended. Not as a challenge or insult to you personally, but as an honest difference of opinion or a request for validation of facts.
There's even a possibility we might agree on something some day.
Best regards,
--
_________________
Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ltp-008
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 258
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| beancurdturtle wrote: |
Dear ltp-008,
I know we have argued some points. And I get the feeling that you have felt insulted or belittled by my way of argumentation.
I have explained that I never intend insult or emotional injury - even though I have argued points very vigorously.
And though I have questioned your facts and your sources of information, and I often disagree with your opinion - I don't think it's constructive for either of us to be insulting, hateful, or negative.
Some people here have strong feelings and opinions, you are one of them. If I respond to your posts in the future, I hope you can accept it in the spirit intended. Not as a challenge or insult to you personally, but as an honest difference of opinion or a request for validation of facts.
There's even a possibility we might agree on something some day.
Best regards,
-- |
Mr. Turtle,
Honestly I don't mind whether or not we have some strong different views on some certain issues, I assume that everybody should be self-thinker, we have some strong arguments sometimes which are not bad thing at all, but once in a while you were involved in a few unwise arguments which didn't make you better.
I am sure that I had offended you on purpose in this thread, in order to narrow our different and make our arguments more reasonable in the future, I offer an apology to you now although I think that we have very different views in terms of politics and other issues around the world.
you are a somehow extreme -left democrat if I am not wrong, and I am somehow a center-left Rebublican and now turn into independent or libertarian, so this is nature that we have strong different opinons on certain issues, but we should have some common views on certain issues such as free-market economy and so forth.
So have a good weekdays~  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RedRose
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ltp-008 wrote: |
, but once in a while you were involved in a few unwise arguments which didn't make you better.
|
I have never seen Turtle initiate any unwise arguments, on the countrary, it's you who always put words into people's mouths and twisted people's opinions. you are the unwise one. and that dosen't make you better, ltp-008.
| Quote: |
I am sure that I had offended you on purpose in this thread, in order to narrow our different and make our arguments more reasonable in the future, I offer an apology to you now although I think that we have very different views in terms of politics and other issues around the world.
|
You offer an apology?? well-done! you should have done that earlier!! Now your apology makes yourself a little better. However, I highly doubt your arguments can get reasonable in the future. Let's just see  if you can get reasonable someday, I will offer some compliments   Cheers! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
beancurdturtle
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ltp-008 wrote: |
you are a somehow extreme -left democrat if I am not wrong, and I am somehow a center-left Rebublican and now turn into independent or libertarian, so this is nature that we have strong different opinons on certain issues, but we should have some common views on certain issues such as free-market economy and so forth.
|
I am left/progressive when it comes to social issues like human rights and healthcare. I am a fiscal policy conservative. Otherwise I am a strong libertarian. There's likely to be less contention than you would imagine based on past experience.
_________________
Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ltp-008
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 258
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| beancurdturtle wrote: |
| ltp-008 wrote: |
you are a somehow extreme -left democrat if I am not wrong, and I am somehow a center-left Rebublican and now turn into independent or libertarian, so this is nature that we have strong different opinons on certain issues, but we should have some common views on certain issues such as free-market economy and so forth.
|
I am left/progressive when it comes to social issues like human rights and healthcare. I am a fiscal policy conservative. Otherwise I am a strong libertarian. There's likely to be less contention than you would imagine based on past experience. |
Now I am curious : what are your standpoints on human rights in China and human rights in U.S?
Do you agree that when a government is big enough to give you everything you want then this government is big enough to take away everything you have? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
beancurdturtle
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ltp-008 wrote: |
| Now I am curious : what are your standpoints on human rights in China and human rights in U.S? |
I will answer, not in absolutes, but in comparatives based on time and changing circumstances.
From what I hear from friends, from what I read, and from my visit to China, I believe that human rights are slowly becoming better in China. It will be necessary for Chinese leaders to expand freedoms at least slowly. The perhaps failing experiment of fast-tracking a societal change as was done in the Soviet Union is a good example for China not to follow. Any dramatic economic and social shift needs to be managed (for lack of a better word). China is changing very fast, so there is a danger of a crash. It will be too fast for some - and too slow for others. However, once you begin to "open" a society, people will demand more freedoms - compromise becomes inevitable. So things are headed in the right direction in China.
Meanwhile human rights and freedoms have been fast eroding in the US since Mr. Bush has been president. Our privacy is invaded. People are detained without charge for their race, and for their political views. I could go on - but it's only beating a dead horse. I believe education and health-care are something a modern nation should provide to citizens; while children die in the US because their parents have no insurance. Old people die of malnutrition, and for lack of medicine. Mentally ill people die from exposure and illness while sleeping on the streets. These are all avoidable in this country, and therefore even more shameful. Don't misunderstand me - I am proud of the principals of opportunity and freedom that the US was built on and used to stand for. But I am ashamed of the damage done by Mr. Bush and a government manipulated by commerce, greed, and corruption. Things are headed in the wrong direction in the US.
| ltp-008 wrote: |
Do you agree that when a government is big enough to give you everything you want then this government is big enough to take away everything you have?
|
Are you offering this "when a government is big enough to give you everything you want then this government is big enough to take away everything you have" as a statement of your belief? If so, I'm afraid I disagree with you. In fact I believe as a government becomes more powerful, it's benevolence should grow at an even faster rate.
_________________
Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ltp-008
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 258
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| beancurdturtle wrote: |
| ltp-008 wrote: |
| Now I am curious : what are your standpoints on human rights in China and human rights in U.S? |
I will answer, not in absolutes, but in comparatives based on time and changing circumstances.
From what I hear from friends, from what I read, and from my visit to China, I believe that human rights are slowly becoming better in China. It will be necessary for Chinese leaders to expand freedoms at least slowly. The perhaps failing experiment of fast-tracking a societal change as was done in the Soviet Union is a good example for China not to follow. Any dramatic economic and social shift needs to be managed (for lack of a better word). China is changing very fast, so there is a danger of a crash. It will be too fast for some - and too slow for others. However, once you begin to "open" a society, people will demand more freedoms - compromise becomes inevitable. So things are headed in the right direction in China.
Meanwhile human rights and freedoms have been fast eroding in the US since Mr. Bush has been president. Our privacy is invaded. People are detained without charge for their race, and for their political views. I could go on - but it's only beating a dead horse. I believe education and health-care are something a modern nation should provide to citizens; while children die in the US because their parents have no insurance. Old people die of malnutrition, and for lack of medicine. Mentally ill people die from exposure and illness while sleeping on the streets. These are all avoidable in this country, and therefore even more shameful. Don't misunderstand me - I am proud of the principals of opportunity and freedom that the US was built on and used to stand for. But I am ashamed of the damage done by Mr. Bush and a government manipulated by commerce, greed, and corruption. Things are headed in the wrong direction in the US.
| ltp-008 wrote: |
Do you agree that when a government is big enough to give you everything you want then this government is big enough to take away everything you have?
|
Are you offering this "when a government is big enough to give you everything you want then this government is big enough to take away everything you have" as a statement of your belief? If so, I'm afraid I disagree with you. In fact I believe as a government becomes more powerful, it's benevolence should grow at an even faster rate. |
I agree that China should gradually move its pace toward to deomcratic and free society thanks to the experience of Soviet Union, now it is true that there are some good signs in which China is heading this right direction no matter how slow it may be. Following the free market oriented reforms more and more people have become rich, when they enjoy the freedom of economy most of them want to enjoy the freedom of speech and press. So there are some state-run media such as " South Cities" which began to challenge the authority of Chinese government, and report some negative news which the Chinese government doesn't want to hear, the main reason why these newspaper dare to report negative reports is that these newspaper need readers to buy their paper to survive themselves although they get some financial support from the government, another reason is that more and more journalists and reporters realize that they have strong obligation to inform the public what are going on in China exactly.
However so far all media in China are still controlled by the Chinese propaganda department, so there is not freedom of press in China. But more and more brave people in China explain their own views in the Internet, so the government can't help but consor and block their posts.
There are a lot of violations of human rights in China but you can't get this kind of news in Chinese media.
I don't think that Bush administration is leading U.S in the wrong direction, Bush encourages the spirit of entrepreneurs, he has paid a close attention to small businesses, so now the unemployment rate in U.S is under 5 percent, the economy is stronger than ever before even though U.S is at war against terror.
Bush also has paid a close attention to education, the "No child left behind " Act will benefit America children a lot in the future.
lol you don't believe "when a government is big enough to give you everything you want then this government is big enough to take away everything you have" , then I can draw a conclusion that you are not a libertarian, you are inclined to socialist or even communist ideology. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
beancurdturtle
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
We have very divergent views regarding the performance of the Bush administration. Bush is not a traditional Republican, nor is he a conservative. I think this is where our strongest disagreements have been. On this point, neither one of will be able to convince the other to change their mind. So I'll leave it at "agreeing to disagree."
| ltp-008 wrote: |
| lol you don't believe "when a government is big enough to give you everything you want then this government is big enough to take away everything you have" , then I can draw a conclusion that you are not a libertarian, you are inclined to socialist or even communist ideology. |
I think there is a misunderstanding. Let me re-phrase what I thought you meant to make it clear.
"When a government has the power to give you everything you want, then this government has the authority to take away everything you have."
I don't agree with this.
Now it seems you meant:
"When a government has the power to give you everything you want then this government has the ability to take away everything you have."
Now this I agree with basically as a statement of truth. However I don't think that government should use power in this manner - in fact I think it should be the opposite. Small efficient government and big freedoms for the people.
Does that make sense?
_________________
Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
