Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[Oriani]

Hello people.. I know this thread can be repeated but I haven't been here so long so, Can you explain to me or give you opinion about the question below?

Hod do you think God appeared? Who made Him??? How does he have powers????????? How did he create everything?? Planents.. life.. etc...

Thanks.

[beancurdturtle]

[eddfx]

God by definition is the uncreated creator of the universe.

I look at God from a scientific viewpoint (mostly physics) and that is why I believe in �creationism� (a being that created the universe). Basic physics shows us time is linked to matter and space (thanks to Einstein�s theory). So time itself would have begun along with matter and space, in other words, the big bang. What this means is, God is outside the realm of time but his creation(s) are not.

Some believe the big bang is a wondrous coincidence or an accident. I personally believe it was put into place by something. As the beginning of time and then life itself, the system put into place is too beautifully organized to be by accident. The most logical explanation would be that it was made by an engineer and not by a clumsy mistake of circumstances.

I have been looking into Buddhism recently and I am finding it very hard to understand Buddhism�s view of God. Some Buddhist say there is no God, but all Buddhist talk about deities and exalted beings on numerous occasions. Siddhartha Guatama (Most call him Buddha) even had an encounter with a deity who tempted him before he became enlightened. How can there be no God(s) if Buddha was visited by one?

In Buddhism there is no beginning or end, instead there is an endless circle of birth and death, reincarnation. I have a problem with that theory because I believe that the universe (space and time) is around 4.5 billion years old. Our scientists today are proving more and more how the universe came to be and when. How can a system be in place since, well forever when the universe is only 4.5 billion years old?

There are flaws in all organized religions that twist truths and use faith as a profiting tool. That is why I put my faith in science and the most wondrous engineer that ever came before us. God.

[beancurdturtle]

[eddfx]

I am not a Panentheist. Too many contradictions in what I believe.

I am non-denomination believer of the Bible in a sense I use the Bible as a history book rather then a spiritual one and I am also a student of scientology because I like many of the theories that stem from scientology. It makes more sense to me.

I also know a little bit about Taoism. It is the primary religion here in Taiwan (about 80-85%), a branch off of Buddhism.

[beancurdturtle]

[eddfx]

I am interested in your source of information on this subject beancurdturtle, because your source is a tad bit off.

I stand by my original statement that in Taiwan Taoism is the predominant religion. They may call themselves Buddhist, but they actually practice Taosim. Here is a brief introduction to Taiwan which explains in greater detail.

According to the website I linked to, Dao is the third most popular religion here, but I have never met anyone who practices this religion and have never seen any temples in the name of Yi Guan Dao. In fact, many people politely scoff at Daoism and don�t even call it a religion at all. On the other hand, some people call it a religion but do not practice it. I know you have said this already, but I am telling you what I heard from the mouths of Taiwanese.

The website I pointed out also said that there are 3,218 Yi Guan Dao temples. I have never seen one and I am in the third biggest city in Taiwan. I am sure they are here though, just not as obvious.

You seem to really want to put a religious label on me. Maybe it helps you to relate to me? If you want to put a label on me, you can say I practice EDDISM.

[beancurdturtle]

[eddfx]

beancurdturtle,

You said, "The Daoism most practiced in Taiwan is Religious Daoism." Your information is false and that is why I said you were a tad off. I didn't say you were wrong. Unlike you I was being polite.

I would appreciate it if you keep rude remarks like, �It wouldn't hurt if you would step off your high horse� to yourself. They are not appreciated. You should know better and set a better example for our English learners.

I have not once belittled you for having an opinion even though in some of my post you have taken some pot shots at me. I was responding to the fact that Taoism is the number one religion in Taiwan and then you turn it into a personal vendetta against my beliefs and opinions.

Assuming I learned about eastern religion from my wife (very low class bringing my wife into it), government websites or Taiwanese people is pure ignorance on your part and I take offence to it.

To enlightened you so you do not assume about me, my wife or my Taiwanese friends, I learned about Buddhism from a UK professor in college and an American professor after college. You are very bold to stick your chest out at me and assume you know more about this subject then I do when you have no idea of who I am, what my interest are or what my background is. I would never say I know more about a subject then another person. It is a sign of insecurity.

I am here to help English learners, not to inflate your ego. I am sorry if you think I am stepping on your popularity toes here, but I am here to simply share opinions and experiences, not win a popularity contest.

If you disagree with my opinion that is fine, but I will not be bullied and insulted for the simple fact my opinion is different.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and was in hopes that we could become friends here and work together as a team. Instead you have shown me nothing but a rude attitude.

For someone who claims to believe in your philosophy, you do not practice it very well.

[beancurdturtle]

First, as an educator, you should know that one of the best ways to learn a language is to observe or engage in spirited debate. In your way, your responses to me are contributing to the learning experience of the ESL community here.

You seem to be very sensitive and so defensive when I contradict your opinion. I'm not sure why you perceive the good natured exchange of ideas, and minor disagreements as potshots. I have not been offensive. I have not tried to prove how much more enlightened I am about Taiwanese culture than you are. I don't see the point. I only state facts - which sometimes differ from your opinions.

If you were not on your high horse, I would not have recommended dismounting. You peppered your post with anecdotes and statements with the intent of proving your credentials to refute me. It's not necessary, and it's damaging to your reputation - especially amongst those who know my understanding of Chinese culture and philosophy. But that's not really a big deal anyway now, is it?

And, dude! You're the one that used the fact that your wife is Taiwanese as a cudgel to attempt to prove your higher knowledge of Taiwanese culture. You brought your wife into the discussion. How can you assert that I am "low class" for responding to your personal confessions?

Now let's look at my statement, "The Daoism most practiced in Taiwan is Religious Daoism." This statement is true - 100% true. Why is it true? Because Yi Guan Tao is in the Religious branch of Taoism. Yet you still insist about my statement "Your information is false." What's up with that?

Then you plead your innocence and assert your politeness. You didn't say I was wrong, but any native English speaker can recognize there's a taint of sarcasm in this statement, "I am interested in your source of information on this subject beancurdturtle, because your source is a tad bit off."

You are the one giving websites, your wife's nationality, your friends mouth's and etc. as your source of credentials to tell me I am spouting falsehoods. How can you take offense when I mention them as well? Especially when I did not denigrate them.

You really don't need to enlighten me about Taoism. Really - you don't. And if your credentials for enlightening me about Taoism are "I learned about Buddhism from a UK professor in college and an American professor after college." then you really are unqualified to enlighten me about Taoism in any case. Am I wrong here as well?

Look, if you are really here to help English learners, then you can take comfort in the fact that you are doing so - very effectively - in a roundabout way by refuting the facts I have presented.

I am not disagreeing with your opinion. That would require that I have a different opinion - and I don't have a differing opinion. What I have are facts - facts are a different category of assertions than opinions. You are welcome to have all the opinions that you want, but when you offer your opinion in response to facts - and your opinion is wrong - I'm not required to ignore it.

I have not bullied or insulted you. However you have responded to me in carefully crafted sarcasm, you have insinuated that I am ignorant, you have hinted that I am insecure, and you have practically called me narcissistic. And every single one of these insinuations is false.

Lastly, I do not "believe" in a philosophy. I try to live my life in accordance with a philosophy - and I do alright. Taoist philosophy does not require that I sit idly by with an inscrutable smile and not respond to someone that challenges my statements - especially factual statements. Some of the most respected respected followers of Taoist Philosophy in ancient times were also warrior heroes. And though I am by no means a warrior hero - when I am right, I am allowed to stand my ground.
_________________
Daniel

�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss

[eddfx]

beancurdturtle,

I am not even going to go into great detail and explain every mistake, lie and twisted truth you have put into your last couple of post. It would be a waste of time for me because it would fall on deaf ears. One word comes to mind though, Hypocrisy. You might want to go re-read your copy and paste job on respect and apply this faith you claim to hold so dear.

But I will say...
Amusing you say you speak fact and I speak opinion and you tell me to get off my high horse. I think you should look in the mirror before you start pointing your angry finger at me. Especially when I live in Asia and you live in the States. Can you prove you have even stepped foot in Asia? I can prove I am in Asia right now. Eating at a Chinese place in the States is a little different then eating here.

You may have the English learners fooled here but I see right through you. To one American speaking to another, you are a rude person and uses fallacies to spew out his opinions and pass them out as facts.

I am not going to argue with you anymore. You have already made my first week here unpleasant. Go and be petty with someone else, your conversation is not welcome with me.

Goodbye beancurdturtle, you will not get anymore responses from me no matter how much you try to bait me with your Fallacies. Just remember, you insulted me multiple times first with your cowboy guns blazing. If you do not realize this, I am sorry that you are not cultured enough to even be polite to your own people. Very sad.

To all the English learners:
I apologize for me getting upset here, but beancurdturtle has offended me multiple times and I will not stand to be treated so rudely. Please do not think this type of English is polite or accepted in other situations. Please understand, anyone can use google and claim they know everything about your culture.

( you said "First, as an educator, you should know that one of the best ways to learn a language is to observe or engage in spirited debate." I disagree with your opinion 100%.)

[Oriani]

Wow guys!! How great explanation you've given me.. Good writing.. Nice view point..

[eddfx]

[Oriani]

[Oriani]