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Culture of cohabitation
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chi-kei



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Location: http://hk.geocities.com/chikei1984

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:14 am    Post subject: Culture of cohabitation Reply with quote

I am a student in Hong Kong.
I know the culture of cohabitation is far common in western countries,
however it is not in chinese society.

i hope to know what is your opinion to this,
do you agree cohabitation or not? Question
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pugachevV



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2003 2:02 pm    Post subject: cohabitation Reply with quote

The only difference between cohabitation and marriage is that the church or religious establishment and the government are involved and sometimes there are tax or other benefits when the couple are married.
Apart from that there is no difference, except that any children born in a marriage are "legitimate". This is unimportant as long as the parents love them.
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Roseray



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree cohabitation provided that we decide not to have baby. Why I said that.
For me, I don't think marriage is what PugachevV said it is only a matter of the church or religious establishment, the government involvement nor tax nor other benefits when the couple are married. I think the important thing to be considered are the children whether are legitimate or not. . It is not enough for them though they have plenty of love from their parents. As they are living in the world full of gossips and discrimination, they need recognition of the others and dignity.
Besides, if their parents are rich, they should be legitimate in order to inherit their parents properties.
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pugachevV



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:11 am    Post subject: cohabitation Reply with quote

In the West there is no longer much concern about whether the parents are married or not. It is accepted that many people prefer to live together without being officially married.
You may think it is a sign of decadence but I see it as a form of liberation from the power of the state and the church.
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wing



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: cohabitation Reply with quote

pugachevV wrote:
In the West there is no longer much concern about whether the parents are married or not. It is accepted that many people prefer to live together without being officially married.
You may think it is a sign of decadence but I see it as a form of liberation from the power of the state and the church.



Yes, it shows a sure sign of that. In our society support for cohabitation is very weak as most still infers from old thoughts that unmarried mothers are all 'dishonest women', who are put under pressure to get married before being heavily pregnant.

In here marriage certificate may not be so important between the two in the sense that they have no children. When the condition changes, it does offer benefit from which the babies get the most.
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Roseray



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we are Asians. I do agree with you. PugachevV who lives in a country where is more liberal. The woman who has baby does not regard as dishonest or be despised by others. Therefore, PugachevV won't consider this point. He thinks as long as both adults agree and live happily, everything will be fine. They needn't be restricted to the norm of the society nor the authorities i.e. government or religious groups who always act as a decree role to condemn others. People there do have more freedom than we, Asians.
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wing



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:43 am    Post subject: That's hilarious. Reply with quote

Roseray wrote:
I think we are Asians. I do agree with you. PugachevV who lives in a country where is more liberal. The woman who has baby does not regard as dishonest or be despised by others. Therefore, PugachevV won't consider this point. He thinks as long as both adults agree and live happily, everything will be fine. They needn't be restricted to the norm of the society nor the authorities i.e. government or religious groups who always act as a decree role to condemn others. People there do have more freedom than we, Asians.



She sees him as her knight in shining armor with the social pressure, which also seems to be the first thing on his mind to decide whether to make an honest woman of her. Subordination of love.
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pugachevV



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 6:32 am    Post subject: The question Reply with quote

The real questions are, why does society look down its nose at those who live together without being married and is it really anyone's concern except those who have chosen this path in life?
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chi-kei



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Location: http://hk.geocities.com/chikei1984

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:40 am    Post subject: Culture of cohabitation Reply with quote

Sorry,
I think you 've misunderstood some points,
let me explain with you.

More than ever, less people would look down on the people of cohabitation in Hong Kong nowadays.
(I don't know whether other asain countries are the same or not.)

However,
the old tradition mind of marriage still didn't change,
the parents think that marriage is better than cohabitation.
It brings a great pressure to it from the society.

In addition,
if the girl has a baby,
the boy should take the responsibility,
that is marry the girl, which is a common thinking of parents.
_________________
Now, the "nameless monster"
has turned into an actually existing man.
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Roseray



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not what you claimed as subordination of love.
First of all, why does a marriage system exist? It exists is to protect women and children who regard as the weakest in the society. Therefore, a marriage certificate is a protection for women and children lawfully.
As the world is changing, women are not as fragile as the past. Women are independent and somehow out-smart than men.
Moreover, as the divorce rate is climbing nowadays, it shows that a marriage certificate can do nothing to protect women and children. Besides, most ex-husband never abide the law to pay any or much alimony to the divorcee. It again shows that it does exist but with no help. The only benefits for the ex-wife or legitimate children if your husband is rich and famous. Then, your children and you can gain part of his fortune.
It remains is the social pressure towards the unwed pregnant women and the children out of the wedlock. Most people in the Asian countries regard the women as the ones who are flirting around. If this social norm or the traditional thinking has lifted, marry or not is not that important.
Let's date back to the old days. Did Adam and Eve got married and then have children? There isn't any of this sort of thinking or system at that time. Couple can live happily without it. If the morality of a society degenerates, marriage certificate cannot be an armour of a woman.
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wing



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

chi-kei wrote:

More than ever, less people would look down on the people of cohabitation in Hong Kong nowadays.


Unfortunately, that is the case in Hong Kong only.
Generally elder Chinese people would not agree with their daughters' easy-girl choices to cohabitate with men who are possibly perceived to be womanizers, having an incentive to shrink from their responsibilities if the girls are pregnant. Marriage clears up the common misconception about playful relationships.

Roseray wrote:
It is not what you claimed as subordination of love.
First of all, why does a marriage system exist? It exists is to protect women and children who regard as the weakest in the society. Therefore, a marriage certificate is a protection for women and children lawfully.
As the world is changing, women are not as fragile as the past. Women are independent and somehow out-smart than men.


Apart from performing the once-effective function of protection, the fundamental role the marriage certificate plays is to epitomize the willingness to make a life commitment, no matter what, till dead do they part.

Suppose your need for marriage does not completely come from within but partly out of social pressure, tell me if it is what I mean. Sure thing it is not valid if the condition does not hold.


To PugachevV:
Cohabitation rate in China is low, resulting in less concern for legitimizing the alternative. Therefore it is not until they have children that marriage is probably the way to go.
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pugachevV



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:42 am    Post subject: marriage Reply with quote

Because of the legal responsibilities that marriage imposes on both people, it is safer for the couple to be married. Probably it is a way to keep track of who is related to whom and intended to stop those who are too closely related from marrying, later on.
In certain ethnic groups in Canada there are more children born out of wedlock than in, with the same father having children with several different women. This is also a drain on the state which supports such children with welfare and other benefits.
In many cases people who enter into a "common-law" relationship and have children often get legally married later on.
In any relationship breakup, where there are children involved, it is always the children who suffer. They suffer whether the marriage is legal or not. In today's "throw away" society people seem not willing to make the effort to make a relationship last.
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wing



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: marriage Reply with quote

How can one man be related to several women by 'children'? It is uncommon Chinese women, at least in Hong Kong, endure sharing her men with other women. Feminists in Canada have decided to imitate the pattern yet?
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SN



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 61
Location: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ii4n-sky/

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: marriage Reply with quote

Hi guys,

afterall, what do u think are merits of cohabitation before marriage?

when i talked with my friends and oldsters, many are basically reluctant to agree with "long cohabitation before marriage".


Rolling Eyes
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wing



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: marriage Reply with quote

The only benefit I can see is she/he can know more about her/him before marriage. Ha, considering their natural inability to produce babies, men do take more advantage of such hassle-free relationships than women.
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