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flying_pig319
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 369
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 Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: think/believe |
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| ieltsinsider wrote: |
| As k.m.m. said "I think Allah telling every body ..." That's what k.m.m. thinks, but it's not what some other Muslims think. As I said before, religious texts are open to interpretation. With Islam, there is an added issue - there is no central authority offering an interpretation (e.g. the Pope in Catholicism). For example, in Islam, 'fatwas' (religious edicts) can be issued by thousands of imams without any reference to each other or to any organisation. |
Oh!
Thanks for that information, insider! That definitely put a very different spin on things, then...
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ieltsinsider
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: interpretation |
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I mean, to quote from the verse of the Koran that k.m.m. has highlighted in blue. "Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except in just cause." Define "just cause"?
Remember that the issue of interpretation is not only with the Koran. The Bible states that taking revenge is unacceptable, but "an eye for an eye" is. Essentially, when reading any holy text, there's something for everyone. |
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k.m.m
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Riyadh
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| BourneNOIR wrote: |
| flying_pig319 wrote: |
Hm- I think I disagree.
I think the terrorists are crazy, but in their craziness genuinely think they're just fulfilling Allah's wishes.
Apparently I'm in the minority. |
Actually, it depends on whether you're talking about the leaders or followers (like AC said), so you could be right. You don't see Bin Laden or the terrorist leaders going around blowing themselves up... but the rest of their followers are, like you said, just crazy or mindless enough to carry out the acts thinking that they're doing what the religion tells them to do... |
BourneNOIR:
yes agree ... even not sending their son or themselves for that !!
so are they fulfilling Allah ..of course NO..... IS there Quran for leaders and other one for followers ?? the answer NO ..it is one , and it is clear who say:
"16.[17:33] Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law). |
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k.m.m
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Riyadh
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:42 am Post subject: Re: think/believe |
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| ieltsinsider wrote: |
| As k.m.m. said "I think Allah telling every body ..." That's what k.m.m. thinks, but it's not what some other Muslims think. As I said before, religious texts are open to interpretation. With Islam, there is an added issue - there is no central authority offering an interpretation (e.g. the Pope in Catholicism). For example, in Islam, 'fatwas' (religious edicts) can be issued by thousands of imams without any reference to each other or to any organisation. |
ieltsinsider:
What do I mean by" I think" is that God / Allah telling to all human kind whether Muslim or non .. Eye for Eye,...etc..
Agree with you about centralizing the fatwas. Islamic Conference Organization based on Jeddah, mostly the authorized one so far , we need it to be more stronger.
examples of muslims leadres and Imams "fatwa"about terrorest.:
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
"If people are intent on using religion to motivate terror or violence, they'll find an excuse there no matter what the actual text says," says David Rodier of American University in Washington, D.C., who is an expert on the world's religions. Like the Koran, he says, most holy scriptures are filled with stories of war and warriors, and these images have been used throughout history by some members of every faith to justify bloodshed.
take care. |
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k.m.m
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Riyadh
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:52 am Post subject: Re: interpretation |
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| ieltsinsider wrote: |
I mean, to quote from the verse of the Koran that k.m.m. has highlighted in blue. "Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except in just cause." Define "just cause"?
Remember that the issue of interpretation is not only with the Koran. The Bible states that taking revenge is unacceptable, but "an eye for an eye" is. Essentially, when reading any holy text, there's something for everyone. |
ieltsinsider:
definetly agree...
I think all came from (Hamorabi Laws 1728 B.C.E,),Iraq. |
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ieltsinsider
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: none |
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| k.m.m. - Thanks for the informative post. I'd forgotten about the Islamic Conference Organisation. |
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k.m.m
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Riyadh
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| BourneNOIR wrote: |
| Terrorists are cowards who hide in the shadows and hide behind religion to commit atrocities against the world. They twist their religion to use it as a tool for committing heinous crime. KMM's post answers FP's question whether the terrorists are "using Allah as an excuse for their bombings, or ... just doing what Allah told them". The terrorists have killed both innocent Muslims and non-Muslims in their attacks. That is not forgivable in the eyes of Allah (according to KMM's post). |
Agreed .......BourneNOIR
On the news last night "Breaking News"
clash between militants linked to alqaed and Saudi police ,two killed.
Saudi Arabian security forces surrounded a building holding suspected militants in the west coast city of Jeddah, the Saudi commercial capital.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5270752.stm
In London , " Airline terror plot"
Twenty-four people are arrested at addresses in Birmingham, High Wycombe and Walthamstow in east London.
Who are the terror plot suspects?
The list includes a security guard, a science student and a university drop-out who works for a music company.
Abdul Waheed, 21, was arrested at a house in Hepplewhite Close, High Wycombe.
He had changed his name from Don Stewart-Whyte about six months previously, according to neighbours. Another suspect, Osman Adam Khatib, 19, has lived in Walthamstow all his life.
He is described by a friend as having recently become very serious in his adherence to Islam.
One of the suspects has recently become a father and worked in security at Heathrow Airport.
To convert to Islam and to do that???Why??? only few months ..being a muslim !!!! Did he read the Koran ? did he master it ?
Why to give bad picture Mr. Don Stewart-Whyt??
That�s why we say all the time terrorists are not Muslim and they have no religion at all..
How about if "and only if " a man his name is Abdul....Muham..... Convert from Islam to other religion (one of the three religion ) and bomb or attend to bomb him self in what ever ..... What others will say ???
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ieltsinsider
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject: converts |
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| Converts to any religion tend to be more zealous than people born and raised in one. |
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ClarissaMach
Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 644
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: Re: converts |
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| ieltsinsider wrote: |
| Converts to any religion tend to be more zealous than people born and raised in one. |
Oh, yeah. And people seem to be more clinged to religion when they feel that somehow their right of having faith is under threat, e.g. when they are a minority in a country.
Once I was watching a movie with Matthew Perry and Salma Hayek named "Fools rush in" and I realised there was a great difference between America and Brazil concerning religion.
In one of the scenes, Salma's character accused Matthew's character of being a non-practicant Protestant, whereas she was zealous Catholic. I believe such a thing is common in the US because most people are born and raised in Protestantism, while the Catholics usually are immigrants from countries like Mexico.
In Brazil, it's totally different! There is a lot of people who define themselves like non-practicant Catholics, but I've never heard someone saying he/she was a non-practicant Protestant. Protestants usually are people who formerly belonged to the Catholic church, but after having lots of problems in theirs lives (alcohol abuse, drug addiction, inter alia) decided to convert to Protestantism (well, it happens in the majority of the cases, but it doesn't mean all converts had problems like this).
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Bob S.
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: Re: converts |
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| ieltsinsider wrote: |
| Converts to any religion tend to be more zealous than people born and raised in one. |
The same is basically true for many people who have found a new way of living, be it ex-smokers, vegitarians, exercise addicts (who were formerly fat and out of shape), or political or social activists. I've heard it said, the only thing more annoying than a smoker is an ex-smoker. 
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"It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood." -- Karl Popper |
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flying_pig319
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 369
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: converts |
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| ieltsinsider wrote: |
| Converts to any religion tend to be more zealous than people born and raised in one. |
Yeah, I think the same is true with anyone who is in the minority in their beliefs. We American Jews are usually very "into" our religion, maybe because it's something we really identify with in society, you know? It makes us different 
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