Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[Diana]

[ilya]

You just write high words. Where did you get them? From the Bible. Do you think Iraqi people like Americans? Don`t make me fun? They were happy to get free from Saddam. Do you think they are happy that Americans are going to rule in their own country? They don`t become free untill you are there. And believe me, most of muslims hate americans. Many muslims in my country wanted to go to Iraq to fight on the side of Iraq. You live in dreams and think that all the world like you. Even Europe don`t like you now. After this war you increase a number of your enemies but didn`t reduce them. And the threat of terracts became much bigger. You think you solve problems, you produces a lot of new. If you don`t believe, find out what is going on in Afganistan, Serbia. Terrorists, terracts, murders are still there and increase every day. And where are you now? Not there.
And , Diana, you should read carefully what i wrote if you want we have a good conversation. Did i say America is the only propagandist? Read again. I wrote terrorists were tought to propagand their ideals by american mass media. And our russian mass media were tought by you too. Most of our TV chanalls show only good things about the war in Chechnya, they are pressed by governement.
And about "Spider Man". You said about democracy. Why didn`t you allow terrorists show on your chanalls what they wish say. That`s the real democracy: to have a possobility to say what you wish. Who are you to tell what should be shown? Now you see that your philosophy is a double standarts, like all american politics.
If you want to watch this film you are welcome, if you want to eat hamburgers you are welcome. Eat as much as you can. And you can die i don`t care about it at all. I didn`t write that this films should be banned. Please, Diana, read carefully. I ask you again and again. You are the very smart girl but we have conversations here. And you write high words which are told every politician on CNN, on our chanalls. I`m not a small stupid boy to read well-known truths.
I wrote that America propogands their own life style through these films and hamburgers to everybody. THEY PROPOGAND. I`M NOT WRITING THAT I WANT TO BAN THIS FILM. All kinds of people watch what they can understand or like, according to their minds. And there should be such films becouse there are such watchers. If you don`t understand any other film so watch, i don`t care about Americans at all.
Ok. Diana, i`m tired of this theme. You are the cool girl or woman. I don`t know how old you are. May be you write me this info by private message. I wish you good luck.

[Diana]

[ilya]

I am not a muslim. I am not a catolic. I am an ateist. And i don`t hate americans. I don`t respect american life style: they don`t study, they don`t know anything outside America, they are lazy and they don`t care about anything except their own interests. If you want to spoil your health eating hamburgers you are welcome, and i won`t care if you die becouse of that. What i meant.
You said yourself that you were liked this war becouse Muslims would never attack USA. But they can easily attack European countries, becouse they hate now all non-muslims. You don`t care about it having started the war. And i don`t like you for it too. You do what you want worring only about yourself. You fell some bombs on Serbia and Afganistan and left these countries, but terrorists and problems are stayed there, and these countries are under our liver.
And hateness to America is much bigger in these countries now. You really believe that the threat of new terracts is reduced with this war. Now any muslim boy know who is his enemy, and nobody told him about it, he saw himself on TV. You showed no respect to muslims having attacked this country. I just can`t understand that you don`t realized they all hate you now. If you don`t believe, enter any muslim site and you will see. I bet you will be scared to travel to any muslim countrynow. Why?
I respect muslims than people of any other relgions. And why i respet them: they never forget their enemies, the hateness live with them within many generations, they never excuse you for this. And you soon understand it. These people die for Allah, they live for Allah, they do everything for Allah. But you american do all these things only for money. And you think that they could do it for this too. After palestian boy committe suicide having killed some people as well he would become a hero, and all his family would be respected. What money are you talking about? May be unreal palestians do this for money, but they are not real muslims.
And don`t say me about non-ruling in Iraq by USA. What are American bases doing there? They will just disappeared? You came there to control muslim region and you will be with your bases there for a long time. And the Iraq government without american ministries and generals. You get Iraq free of Saddam so go hell out of there. Leave some soldiers and that`s all. UN know what should do like in Afganistan, for instant in what way to form the government. But no, you are there to control this country, this region.
What Russian chanall do you watch? Only two chanalls show some truth, and they say practically nothing, becouse military control journalists in Chechnya and don`t allow them make any move. You have no idea what is going on Chechnya, you can only guess. It is the HELL. Imagine the hell, and it will be Chechnya.
Soon you will feel this hell on your skin in Iraq. You will see.
You know i know all your answers, i know what you will answer me on all my words. I`d preffer to change the theme. I like to live with good feelings and talk about them. Anyway, i won`t change my mind becouse you tell what i have lessoned a lot of times. You think you are the only real people, live how it should be. Unfortunetaly, muslims think in the other way, as russians do, as chinese do, as .........
Let`s finish this theme or change... a little. Start a new one. I`d like to read something wonderful, beautiful from you. For example you favourite song. OK.
And you said you don`t care who dies. What were you doing in Iraq? You wre killing people carring about their lives.

[wing]

Your disrespect arose from no more than skin-deep knowledge of American life and culture as far as I�m concerned. I deeply believe that in your country, anyhow some people act very like those Americans in your �critical� mind.

[Diana]

[ilya]

Dear civilizian people, you have problems with your eyes or you just see what you want to see. For you it`s easy to imagine world like black and white and put some tags on everybody. I`M A BAD GUY. YOU DECIDED IT. O.K. If you have nothing to say you will turn into personalities. What you did. BUT IN REAL, THERE IS NO HATRED IN MY HEART. YOU UNDERSTAND. NO HATRED.
For me americans are as the same as the muslims. And as the same as russians. And i respect them all if they don`t interfere to live people around. BUT I DON`T LIKE AMERICAN LIFE STYLE. It doesn`t mean that every american doesn`t read books, doesn`t know world history. What i mean "American life style", it comes from free good living, and you become lazy to develope yourself, your prefer lieing on the sofa with hamburger, you are lazy even to coock something, you buy fast food and microowens. You own president couldn`t spell the name of some countries correctly. And he`s a president. But i like him who he is. He is the cool guy. I love america and americans for freedoms, easy-going of americans, their life`s love and so on. I ADORE HOLLYWOOD.
And in my country almost every teenager became as an american. This life style has covered almost all the world. AND I DIDN`T SAY THAT IS BAD. THERE WAS NO WORD ABOUT THAT. I said that america has been propoganding her life style to other countries. That`s a fact AND NO FEELING ABOUT THAT.

If you don`t want to be revenged don`t harm anybody. Why must a muslim love murderers if all his family, his childrens were killed by bombs? Tell me "Why". Your CIA created Usama Ben Laden in Afganistan and supported him, CIA helped Saddam come to governing. They were not created by muslims. You think some muslims became terrorists becouse of they own desires, without sources of them. There is always the source of appearing something. You didn`t even try to see this source. Why did they start do this? You don`t try understand, You just attack.
And don`t teach me in what way i should speak, i didn`t write anything wrong.
This is you should first learn to speak with the world before drop bombs everywhere. Are you going to contact with muslims or you are going to tell them "Shut up and lesson to me or i fall a bomb on your head"? Why are you going now to UN? Difficult problems are not for you? You just can throw bombs down. What about making peace on that land? Muslim world just needs to be in peace, be respected, being developed. And they won`t have desires to kill anybody they will enjoy their own lives. Show them anything except murders.
I respect muslims. I don`t respect terrorists who only say that they are muslims. But they don`t pray, they don`t love Allah. They fight for MONEY. There are many such fighters in Chechnya. But I respect people who fights for his freedom, for good name of his family, for memmory of his murdered relatives. Muslims are real families. They grow up real boys. There is no contracts between wifes and husbands like in USA. Children respect parents.
Diana, read your lections in the other place. Here is not a school. You always teach us live and understand. The world never understand you if you will teach him. And point who is a bad country (by the way, have you already found weapons of mass destruction ) and who is good.
You aren`t able to contact anyone how disagree with you. And you just run away from them like escaped from UN. You think yor are the only right. I just ask you "Who are you to decide who lives, who dies?"

[Diana]

Ilya, I already told you that the United States went to war against Saddam because he was considered a threat. Don't you remember??????? In my posts in Opinions, I told you that Saddam was a threat to his neighbors and to his people. I also told you that the Iraqi scientists have already informed the Americans that Saddam got rid of many of the chemcial and biological weapons only days before the war started. The Iraqi scientists also showed the Americans the factory where they made those chemcial weapons. It was in the news! So, are you going to tell me that the Iraqi scientists are liars?

[ilya]

You know, lady. I think my neighbour is threat for me. He came out from prison two days ago. And i suppose he is able to kill me. May be i should kill him first. And some people are unkind with me, so they can be threat for me. What should i do with them?
Is there a law on this planet or not? If i see a threat in somebody, can i kill him(her) killing people aroung him(her) as well? Or i can do what i want, and nobody will be accussed of these murders. So i have a license allowed murders like James Bond`s.
So, according to your logic S.Korea, Siria, Iran should begin wars against USA immediately becouse there is a threat that USA begin this war soon.
And for example, Gonduras could start a war against Peru if they don`t like regime in Peru.
You read what you write? Scientists said that WMD were in Iraq. All the world know that. Iraq attacked Kuweit some years ago usiing it. But it was in the past. So, the factory can be stayed after that and scientists can be stayed alive after that. BUT IS THERE WMD NOW? NOW, NOW.
It`s your propagand. I said they (american government) would tell you everything in order to justify beginning of this war. There is no WMD now. and inspectors didn`t find them before. That`s facts.
Why should Saddam has got rid of them before the war? They are weapons. Where is your logic. Anyway, he would be charged and be burnt on the electric chair. You have only talks.
I wanted Saddam to have been killed. I wanted his regime to have been fallen. But in what way. His country is arabic and is situated in the center of muslim world. What muslim world would think after this atack? I think it should be the war becouse there was little chances to break Saddam`s regime with other ways. But we (civilizian people) had to show to muslim world that we do it through the law and that there is no chances to get rid of Saddam in other way. America showed that any country can attack the other country without any permission now.
Are scientist liers? I`m not God to know that. And i`m not God to know what Bush wanted in Iraq. You know that, so you are......
All i know that If you lie once what wants you boss (Saddam) you can lie again if you new bosses wants this (through interrogations). These people got used to telling what upstairs` people want.
Propagand is to say that some scientists said that there had been WPM, and were silent about speaking of another scientists who says there were. not.

[Diana]

Torture chambers and mass graves have been uncovered in Iraq, showing what Saddam has done under his regime. He has already killed millions of people, and you still think that he should rule Iraq.

Well, I got news for you, Ilyia. The people of Iraq are very happy that Saddam is gone, and they don't care HOW he was taken out as long as he is taken out IMMEDIATELY. Only people like you would like to take out Saddam SLOWLY and give him more chance to kill many more millions.

[obelix]

Meanwhile, in Chechnya, the mighty Russian war machine cannot contain the islamic terrorists there.
What's up with that?

[ilya]

Obelix, i open you a secret. We have no mighty army machine. And secondly it`s useless to fight with terrorists usiing a power. Chechenian people hate russian, becouse our army bombed Chechnya. They help terrorists, they hide them. And children of Checnya become new terrorists. We came and made them free from terrorists, torture, captivity. There was HELL there.
Iraqi will help terrorists in the same way because they don`t want to see american in their country. Iraqi are happy that that Saddam is gone. And they will have the same happiness when american are gone too. We`re all see how they protest now.

[obelix]

No doubt the Russian Army could easily crush the whole of Chechnya if it were allowed to do so by the politicians. But politicians these days tie the hands of their military.
The USA did it in Vietnam. Russia has done it in Afghanistan and also Chechnya.
This sort of interference leads to the decline of every great power.
What interests me is that all these recent terrorist attacks are done by Islamists.
Islam is taking on the aspect of a terrorist organisation. Religion is a perfect cover for any terrorist because God is said to be higher than earthly government. If the religious leaders are preaching, "Blow up America, God says so!" then there will be some who will think it their religious duty to do just that; particularly among the uneducated. At the same time, democratic governments, who respect religious freedom, are loath to clamp down because of the respect afforded religious belief in their societies.
However, something that talks like a terrorist, walks like a terrorist, looks like a terrist and acts like a terrorist, probably is a terrorist.
A Boeing 747 is a passenger airliner but once it is seized by people intent on flying it into a building, it becomes a guided missile and the only way to stop it is to shoot it down.

[ilya]

Obelix, people live among myths. The first myth that it`s possible to solve problems by a power. You know, if we have terrorists they should be killed of course. But they will be killed anyway when they commit suicide. So, our main aim is to avoid victims. If he (terrorist) wants to die he must commit suicide at home, so there will be no victims.
And we should explain all future terrorists (islamic children) that this phylosophy is wrong. And how we can do it? Bush thinks by bombing their countries. The hatred increases more and more after that. And we will have much more terrorists.
We should develop this region. They are poor and uneducated. They have no idea about democracy, good life, entertainment. And while they live like animals some army also come into their region and do what they want.
You information is poor. The war in Chechnya was finished three years ago. Our army bombed all the Chechnya. There is the other kind of war in Chechnya now. The partisan war. How are you going to kill terrorists if you don`t know where they are? Bombs and tanks are useless here. They live among peaceful people. They can be civil during the day and be terrorists at nights.
Our army is poor, our soldiers in chechnya have nothing to eat and they arrange some special operations in villages to get some food among peaceful people. They are like gangsters now. We have a corruption there. Generals know where are bandits but before operations let them know and they go way. They have been cathing the bandits` leaders for 5 years.
And so on and so on and so on. Our situation even worth than between Israel and palestina. Becouse this is our own territory. And a half people of chechnya wants to live with Russia, the other one wants to be with us too and also that our army leave their territory becouse of special operations.

[Diana]

Do you really think that terrorism will decrease if the United States did not go to war against Saddam? So, you are a Russian. Your country did not support the US-led war in Iraq; however, the muslim terrorists continue to bomb your country despite that your country was against the war. I would think that these muslim terrorists would see that Russia, who did not support the war, would be more diplomatic than the warmonger Americans. Yet, they continue to bomb Russia rather than seeking a diplomatic solution? The terrorists already know that Russia did not support the war, so why do they continue to attack Russia? Why not seek a diplomatic solution since it's obvious Russia is not a warmonger like the Americans?

The United States have already stated that they are pulling out of Saudi Arabia. This is what Bin Laden and Al-Queda have always wanted. Now, they are getting their wish, but that doesn't matter because they continue to bomb the Americans as well as their own people in Saudi Arabia. The terrorists have also threatened the Saudi family, and the Saudi family did not supoort the US-led invasion of Iraq. In fact, Saudi Arabia did not cooperate with the United States and allowed them to use their territory to attack Iraq. But that doesn't seem to matter to the terrorists. I can understand why the terrorists want to kill Americans, but why the Saudis? So, why are the terrorists threatening to kill the Saudi family when they did not even support the US-led invasion of Iraq? What do you think is the real agenda of these muslim terrorists?