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Hate Sites and Propogandas.
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U-jin



Joined: 26 May 2003
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hate sites are good, because at least they are honest about where they stand. For better or worst it is their right to express themselves. On the other hand a politician lie all the time yet we keep on electing them over and over again. So what would you choose hate vs lies?...Ohh wait, we already made that vote.


There are lots of good things about hate. It motivates you. How? Well that depends on the person. Just like out of love, there is a lot of good out of hate as well.


ying-yang ~
balance is the way ~~
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joonstar



Joined: 11 Apr 2003
Posts: 18
Location: dajon, korea

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:20 pm    Post subject: I agree with Ilya Reply with quote

Diana calls free speech as hate.
That is another and real hate.
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Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:27 pm    Post subject: Where did I say that? Reply with quote

Where in my post did I call Free Speech as Hate?
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joonstar



Joined: 11 Apr 2003
Posts: 18
Location: dajon, korea

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:28 pm    Post subject: In your first sentence(Be careful~~)... Reply with quote

I Just remember seeing on the news somedays ago how Bush wants americans to have immunity from the ICC (International Criminal Court). So now we have a law for the whole world except for Americans

I see Diana is above others like Bush.
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Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:04 am    Post subject: Re: I agree with Ilya Reply with quote

joonstar wrote:
Diana calls free speech as hate.
That is another and real hate.


You haven't answered my question, Joonstar. Where in my post does it say that I call free speech as hate?
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Shac



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 4:40 am    Post subject: disturbed mind Reply with quote

hi everyone:
it is said that everybody has his own judgement and what's wrong or what's right, he knows the best than any other confused minds. well u don't agree with it, then there u go!!!
i personally agree with ilya. onbody can make others accept ur words instead it's he that believes what he would like to take. to get the information thoroughly gives a person a comprehensive sight of viewing and thus allows the man to make a more a bit correct conclusion. but some are too complacent in themselves to think outside their own box and to take the opposite side into accout, and as a result, this gives rise to the possibility that once there's something goes alone with their own way in interpretation, they reveal themselves more easily to get affected by, say, either the hate site or the propaganda. maybe this is called the birds of the same feather flock together.
_________________
we prepare for the best and conquer the worst.
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Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: disturbed mind Reply with quote

Shac wrote:
hi everyone:
it is said that everybody has his own judgement and what's wrong or what's right, he knows the best than any other confused minds. well u don't agree with it, then there u go!!!
i personally agree with ilya. onbody can make others accept ur words instead it's he that believes what he would like to take. to get the information thoroughly gives a person a comprehensive sight of viewing and thus allows the man to make a more a bit correct conclusion. but some are too complacent in themselves to think outside their own box and to take the opposite side into accout, and as a result, this gives rise to the possibility that once there's something goes alone with their own way in interpretation, they reveal themselves more easily to get affected by, say, either the hate site or the propaganda. maybe this is called the birds of the same feather flock together.


Well, Shac, I hope you are being fair and not acccusing me of being too complacent and unable to think outside my own box - especially when I already admitted my mistake in falsely accusing the Russians of planting toys to kill Aghan children. Anyone reading my post can see that if I find myself to be in error, I am not afraid to admit that error.
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wushaoru



Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 6:24 pm    Post subject: I admire Ilya ! Reply with quote

Ilya , You are so erudite . I appreciate you so much .I agree with you for your most view .And I agree with Shac too .And too Diana , I'm sorry to say , maybe you should have a self-examination , so too America . Why their (terrorist or some other Arabian) aim is always American . Why so many poeple hate or oppose America. Even why we oppose your view ! Sometimes we should check ourselves , but not just put all the obligation to others .
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Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: I admire Ilya ! Reply with quote

wushaoru wrote:
Ilya , You are so erudite . I appreciate you so much .I agree with you for your most view .And I agree with Shac too .And too Diana , I'm sorry to say , maybe you should have a self-examination , so too America . Why their (terrorist or some other Arabian) aim is always American . Why so many poeple hate or oppose America. Even why we oppose your view ! Sometimes we should check ourselves , but not just put all the obligation to others .


And what views is it that you disagree with me, Wushaoru? Be specific! Joonstar couldn't even answer my simple question. How ironic that you post a message saying that America and China are good friends and then come to this post and ask why everyone hates America. Tell me, do the Chinese also hate Americans? Here is an article on how the Iraqis feel about the Americans, Wushaoru. This is what America has done for the Iraqis, and if you had known your history, you have known that US foreign policy in the Middle East is much better than their policy in South America. But lo and behold, it's people in the Middle East who hates us more than the South Americans. Well guess what! Thanks to the Americans and the British, the Iraqis are now living a better life without Saddam. Read the article below and educate yourself.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following article shows what Iraq is like.

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8977

The Real Iraq
By Amir Taheri
New York Post | July 18, 2003

Open up almost any American or European publication these days, and you'll be bombarded with grim news about "horrific" conditions in Iraq - and America's "poor handling" of the post-war reconstruction effort. All of which, it is claimed, is made all the more tragic - because President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair maliciously exaggerated the threat from Iraq. They may have won the war, but they're losing they peace.

Author and Middle East expert Amir Taheri spent several days on the ground in Iraq last week and found reality to be starkly different from what is so ubiquitously reported.

Here is a first-hand account of an Iraq that is rapidly moving forward in nearly every aspect of life - political, economic and cultural. And a people that, while understandably skeptical after decades of tyranny, is nonetheless hopeful - and grateful for their liberation.

---- New York Post Editors

BAGHDAD, IRAQ

'THE Iraqi Intifada!"

This is the cover story offered by Al- Watan Al-Arabi, a pro-Saddam Hussein weekly published in Paris. It finds an echo in the latest issue of America's Time magazine, which paints a bleak prospect for the newly liberated country. The daily Al Quds, another pro-Saddam paper, quotes from The Washington Post in support of its claim that "a popular war of resistance" is growing in Iraq. Some newspapers in the United States, Britain and "old Europe" go further by claiming that Iraq has become a "quagmire" or "another Vietnam." The Parisian daily Le Monde prefers the term "engrenage," which is both more chic and French.

This chorus wants us to believe that most Iraqis regret the ancien regime, and are ready to kill and die to expel their liberators.

Sorry, guys, this is not the case.

Neither the wishful thinking of part of the Arab media, long in the pay of Saddam, nor the visceral dislike of part of the Western media for George W. Bush and Tony Blair changes the facts on the ground in Iraq.

ONE fact is that a visitor to Iraq these days never finds anyone who wants Saddam back.

There are many complaints, mostly in Baghdad, about lack of security and power cuts. There is anxiety about the future at a time that middle-class unemployment is estimated at 40 percent. Iraqis also wonder why it is that the coalition does not communicate with them more effectively. That does not mean that there is popular support for violent action against the coalition.

Another fact is that the violence we have witnessed, especially against American troops, in the past six weeks is limited to less than 1 percent of the Iraqi territory, in the so-called "Sunni Triangle," which includes parts of Baghdad.

Elsewhere, the coalition presence is either accepted as a fact of life or welcomed. On the 4th of July some shops and private homes in various parts of Iraq, including the Kurdish areas and cities in the Shiite heartland, put up the star-spangled flag as a show of gratitude to the United States.

"We see our liberation as the start of a friendship with the U.S. and the U.K. that should last a thousand years," says Khalid Kishtaini, one of Iraq's leading novelists. "The U.S. and the U.K. showed that a friend in need is a friend indeed. Nothing can change that."

In the early days of the liberation, some mosque preachers tested the waters by speaking against "occupation." They soon realized that their congregations had a different idea. Today, the main theme in sermons at the mosques is about a partnership between the Iraqi people and the coalition to rebuild the war-shattered country and put it on the path of democracy.

Even the radical Shiite cleric Muqtada Sadr now says that "some good" could come out of the coalition's presence in Iraq. "The coalition must help us stabilize the situation," he says. "The healing period that we need would not be possible if we are suddenly left alone."

Yet another fact is that all 67 of Iraq's cities and 85 percent of the smaller towns now have fully functioning municipalities. Several ministries, including that of health and education, have also managed to get parts of their operations going again. The petroleum industry, too, is being revived with plans to produce up to 2.8 million barrels of crude oil a day before the year is out.

To be sure, life in Iraq today is no bed of roses. But don't forget that this is an immediate post-war situation. There is no famine - in fact, the bazaars are more replenished with food than ever since the late 1970s - while food prices, having jumped in the first weeks after liberation, are now lower than they were in the last years of Saddam's rule.

MOST hospitals are functioning again with essential medical supplies trickling in for the first time since 1999. Also, some 85 percent of primary and secondary schools and all but two of the nation's universities have reopened with a full turnout of pupils and teachers.

The difference is that there no longer are any mukahebrat (secret police) agents roaming the campuses and sitting at the back of classrooms to make sure lecturers and students do not discuss forbidden topics. Nor are the students required to start every day with a solemn oath of allegiance to the dictator.

There has been no mass exodus anywhere in Iraq. On the contrary, many Iraqis, driven out of their homes by Saddam, are returning to their towns and villages.

Their return has given the building industry, moribund in the last years of Saddam, a boost. Iraqi exiles and refugees abroad are also coming home, many from Iran and Turkey. Last month alone the Iranian Red Crescent recorded the repatriation of more than 10,000 Iraqis, mostly Kurds and Shiites.

In Iraq today there are no "displaced persons," no uprooted communities and no long lines of war victims in search of a safe haven.

FOR the first time in almost 50 years there are also no political prisoners, no executions, no torture and no limit on freedom of expression. Iraq today is the only Muslim country where all shades of opinion - from the extremist Islamists of the Hezbollah to Stalinists, and passing by liberals, socialists, Arab nationalists and moderate Islamists - have full freedom to compete in an open market of ideas. Better still, all are now represented in the newly created Governing Assembly (Majlis al-Hukum). Iraq is also the only Muslim country where more than 100 newspapers and weeklies, representing all shades of opinion, appear without a police permit and are subjected to no censorship.

Much is made of power cuts, especially in Baghdad. But this is partly due to a 30 percent seasonal increase in demand because of air-conditioning use in temperatures that reach 115 degrees. In other cities - for example, Basra - the country's second-most populous urban center, more electricity is used than at any time under Saddam Hussein.

A stroll in the open-air book markets of the Rashid Street reveals that thousands of books, blacklisted and banned under Saddam Hussein, are now available for sale. Among the banned authors were almost all of Iraq's best writers and poets, whom many young Iraqis discover for the first time. Stalls, offering video and audiotapes for sale, are appearing in Baghdad and other major cities, again giving Iraqis access to a forbidden cultural universe.

The flower stalls along the Tigris are also making a comeback.

"Business is good," says Hashem Yassin, one florist. "In the past, we sold a lot of flowers for funerals and placement on tombs. Now we sell for weddings, birthday parties and gifts of friendship."

The free-market economy is making its first inroads into Iraq's socialistic system in a number of small ways. Hundreds of hawkers are offering a variety of imported goods and making brisk business by selling soft drinks, often bottled in Iran, and biscuits and chewing gums from Turkey.

Some teahouses, in competition to attract clients, offer satellite television as an additional attraction. Every evening people pack the teahouses to watch, and zap and discuss, what they have seen in an atmosphere of freedom unknown under Saddam. It may be hard for Westerners to understand the Iraqis' exhilaration at being able to watch television of their choice.

But this is a country where, under Saddam, people could be condemned as spies and hanged for owning a satellite dish.

Another symbol of newly won freedom is the multiplication of cellular and satellite phones. Most belong to returning exiles. But their appearance is reassuring to many Iraqis. Under Saddam, their illegal possession could carry the death penalty.

The portrayal of Baghdad as an oriental version of the Far West in Hollywood Westerns misses the point. It ignores the fact that life is creeping back to normal, that weddings, always popular in summer, are being celebrated again, often with traditional tribal ostentation. The first rock concert since the war, offered by a boys' band, has already taken place, and Iraq's National Football (soccer) Squad has resumed training under a German coach.

THERE are two Iraqs today: One as portrayed by those in America and Europe who wish to use it as a means of damaging Bush and Blair, and the other as it really exists, home to 24 million people with many hopes and aspirations and, naturally, some anxiety about the future.

"After we have aired our grievances we remember the essential point: Saddam is gone," says Mohsen Saleh, a geologist in Baghdad. "A man who is cured of cancer does not complain about a common cold."
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wushaoru



Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 12:30 am    Post subject: Re Diana Reply with quote

you said"How ironic that you post a message saying that America and China are good friends and then come to this post and ask why everyone hates America. Tell me, do the Chinese also hate Americans? Here is an article on how the Iraqis feel about the Americans, Wushaoru. This is what America has done for the Iraqis, and if you had known your history, you have known that US foreign policy in the Middle East is much better than their policy in South America. But lo and behold, it's people in the Middle East who hates us more than the South Americans. Well guess what!"

Chinese never hate anyone .And want to make friends with everyone. But poeple and poeple do have different views .You said it was ironic for me to do it("How ironic that you post a message saying that America and China are good friends and then come to this post and ask why everyone hates America") . I wonder how old are you . Does good friends should have the same view , then there will no friendship any more .Maybe that's why USA and France had some conflict in the Iriq war . we can't tell a lie in order to make friends. Our dear Prime Minister Zhou Enlai had said "have seek common points while reserving difference ".I hope America doesn't want all his friends all have the same view with him ,but just"seek common points while reserving difference ".OK?Although we have different view , we Chinese still want to be friendly with you.That is "have seek common points while reserving difference "
And you ask me to guessing why "it's people in the Middle East who hates us more than the South Americans. " Sorry ,that is what i ask you to think about.Why they hate your Americans .Sometimes respect is more important than bread .And of course , freedom include respect .So I want to say it again "have seek common points while reserving difference " .Different nation has different national character .
thank you for your bringing up so a realistic topic ! Wish you happy .
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Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 4:57 pm    Post subject: You judged me too quickly. Reply with quote

Well, I'm glad to hear that China don't hate anyone, Wushaoru. And I can tell you that Americans feel the same way. We don't hate anyone either. If you had read my entire discussion with Ilyia, you would have known that I admitted being wrong in accusing the Russians of purposely killing Afghan children. I also admitted that there were indeed more Russians killed during World War II than any Allied forces. Does this sound like I am incapable of reaching common ground? You are correct that people do have different points of view. Therefore, I suggest you remember that and try to understand my point of view instead of judging me and telling me to examine myself.

The only thing I stood against Ilyia is when he supported terrorism and when he condemned the US for bombing Japan during World War II. Japan invaded my island and massacred my people during that time; therefore, I stand beside the Americans on this. However, today we are now friends with Japan. As for terrorism, I don't condoned terrorism at all.

By the way, Wushaoru, I do know why Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Queda gang hates the United States and the western world. The question is do you? Do you know why Bin Laden and Al-Queda hates the Americans?

Next time, Wushaoru, I highly recommend that you read carefully before you judge me. And if you can't understand what you read, just ask. Have a nice day.
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wushaoru



Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your recommending and I read all the post carefully once again .But from Ilya's post I cann't find what you said that he supported terrorism (you said "The only thing I stood against Ilyia is when he supported terrorism"), he just appreciate Arabs. If you think all Arabs are terrorists ,I hope you will change your view !And second I still cann't find
that he condemned the US for bombing Japan during WW2.But he just condemned what you had said .(you wrote "It was America who ended the entire World War II by dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in Japan "and end with a head portrait, laughing )You wrote "USA dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in Japan" without any compassion but just laughing. That why he , and me too , condemned you (I think you can read it carefully again while asking others to do it ).You can be proud of U.S.A end the WW2 ,but you cann't be proud of dropping atomic bombs on Japan , after all there many innocent people ,and ,Killing is not a funny thing !


You still wrote "By the way, Wushaoru, I do know why Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Queda gang hates the United States and the western world. The question is do you? Do you know why Bin Laden and Al-Queda hates the Americans? "
They hate you and you asked me to answer why . First it's unreasonable .second, if you really want me to answer it , I think you
will never agree with me ,I won't debate with you in it any more .And in fact , Ilya had answer it (You can read these post carefully again).


And at last ,I should say sorry to you for asking you to examine yourself .Maybe there is some different between China and America . For China , two thousand years ago ,Confucius had said "I examine myself three times a day".So if there is something wrong, Chinese alway examine theirselves in order to be better .That's our thought . For example , if many people hate Chinese ,for Chinese thought ,we will ask ourselves why and find out the reason then resolve it .I don't think bomb can't resolve the problem .That is the different between China and U.S.A .It's just a culture conflict .So I say sorry again for considering you as a Chinese .
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obelix



Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 304

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the post that Diana put up giving the other side of the story that the Western left-liberal press does not want to even consider, very interesting.

Do not forget that America helped rebuild Japan and Germany and a large chunk of Europe after WW2. They have not forgotten how to do it.
What is hindering America and costing her casualties is that they did not obliterate Iraq as they did Germany and they are trying very hard to make sure that no innocent people are killed. This is very difficult when Islamic terrorists are fighting in civilian clothes and do not care how many innocent people they kill. The US army, on the other hand, are paying with their lives for this constraint. Even so, they have lost less than 200 killed. This is a ridiculously small number of casualties to conquer a country the size of Iraq.

Another factor is the continued support by Syria and Iran and probably Saudi Arabia, of the Islamic terrorists. They are arming and encouraging them to attack US forces in Iraq.

It is politics as usual. .. dirty.
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Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:40 pm    Post subject: What Ilyia wrote. Reply with quote

ilya wrote:

I respect muslims than people of any other relgions. And why i respet them: they never forget their enemies, the hateness live with them within many generations,


The above statement is what Ilyia wrote, Washurao. Did you not read this statement from Ilyia? Well, let me explain what it means to you. According to what Ilyia said in this above statement, there is only one reason why he respects muslims. The only reason Ilyia respects muslims is because "their hateness live within them for many generations and they never forget their enemies." He respects muslims mainly because of their strong hatred inside them - hatred enough to kill innocent people. According to Ilyia, he respects muslims more than any people of OTHER RELIGIONS.

Where in my post did I ever say that muslims are all terrorists? You won't find any because I never said such things.

I already explained to Ilyia and to you my reasons why I stand beside the United States when they defeated Japan. Perhaps, you did not read my response to Ilyia. You can condemned the US for dropping atomic bombs on Japan, but you seem to EXCUSE JAPAN for killing innocent people. I don't hear you say anything about the innocent victims Japan killed in Asia and the Pacific region. It was the US who got Japan to surrender. Perhaps, in your eyes, it would have been best if the US had left Japan alone so the Japanese can continue to kill and rape more Chinese people like they did in Nanking?

Washaoru, I am a Pacific Islander and also an American citizen. I also have Chinese blood in me. I was raised in the Chamorro culture, which is similar to many Asian cultures. After all, my ancestors are originally from Southeast Asia.
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Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:41 am    Post subject: I agree Reply with quote

obelix wrote:
I found the post that Diana put up giving the other side of the story that the Western left-liberal press does not want to even consider, very interesting.

Do not forget that America helped rebuild Japan and Germany and a large chunk of Europe after WW2. They have not forgotten how to do it.
What is hindering America and costing her casualties is that they did not obliterate Iraq as they did Germany and they are trying very hard to make sure that no innocent people are killed. This is very difficult when Islamic terrorists are fighting in civilian clothes and do not care how many innocent people they kill. The US army, on the other hand, are paying with their lives for this constraint. Even so, they have lost less than 200 killed. This is a ridiculously small number of casualties to conquer a country the size of Iraq.

Another factor is the continued support by Syria and Iran and probably Saudi Arabia, of the Islamic terrorists. They are arming and encouraging them to attack US forces in Iraq.

It is politics as usual. .. dirty.


I agree that politics is a dirty business. It's very sad to see the Arab neighbors encouraging attacks on the US and coalition forces and all the while pretending that they care about the welfare of their Iraqi brothers.

It was also the Americans who rebuilt our island after World War II. Our main road is named "Marine Drive" in honor of the US Marines who built it. The Americans are already in the process of recruiting and training an Iraqi army. Hopefully, our troops and the coalition forces will be able to go home soon. The latest news I've heard is that they have also killed Saddam's two sons. I am hoping that they will be able to find Saddam. Iraq will be a much safer place wiithout him.
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