Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[ad-miral]

If the task is to defend the Iraq-war, then Hitler is the "mother of all arguments". "How can you stop a dictator with a peace movement! Hitler could only be stopped because the Allies defeated them." I'm trying to invalidate this argument from the German point of view.

"No more facism, no more war!" That's the motto of the German antifacists in 1945. Communists, Democrats, Jews, Christs. A lot of them wouldn't be alive today, if the Allies hadn't win. So why do the 80-, 90- old guys go on streets and protest aginst an attack, a war of aggression, which their saviour at that time fight against Iraq dictators?

It's because- war will kill innocent people. Do you know the british Coventry, against which a nazi air raid startet at 1940? "To coventrisize" had been a German vocabulary, for the bombardment of civil aims. At that time it was: "You kill our civilians, we kill yours." The difference: The allies supposedly wanted to free Germany, while the Nazis were just the Nazis. Nearly half a million of German civillians didn't survive their liberation. In Iraq it must be many thousands now. During the 2nd world war, 62000 British civilians died, in France it were 470000 civilians, in Sovjet Union 7 million civilians, in Germany 500000 civilians. Let's forget "liberation." 1945 it was because of revenge, in Iraq it is because of oil, and what will it be in Syria? In Iran? In North Korea?

Early in 1945, in Haigerloch, Germany, Hitler wanted to produce A-bombs. "Germany could have A-bombs" was the reason of the American A-bomb research. It was called the "Manhattan Project"
Summer 1945, the first A-bomb has been "tested" in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Later, America found out that the German A-bomb was in very early stages and not ripe enough. They found documents in Stra�burg, called Alsons, which said, that Germany would only have A-bombs after many years, if ever. This Alsons document should never get into the hands of French people or (for God's sake!) Russian people.

Why does America have this extreme fear that ellies could know about the German research? And, second question, why is the "Manhattan project" NOT cancled after the discovery of non-existant German bombs? Why do they finish the Manhattan project on the other hand, and test it in Japan? The only reason: America wanted the only A-bomb in the world. It was never the aim to delete all threats of mass destruction weapons, it was the aim to monopolize this thread. (We are in Iraq again)

Hiroshima was a shock for Russian, so they fastly made an own nuclear program- the birthday of the cold war.

So at the end: Can we compare Hitler to Saddam? (The reason of the Iraq war) Can we compare Taliban with Hitler? What about the northkorean dictator Kin Jong II? None of them excelled themselfs. In this aspect, Bush is more similar to Hitler, than Saddam did. (Ok, I don't wanna compare Bush with Hitler, because America is not facist, and Bush wouldn't massacre 7 million jews because of racism.)

In the second world war the Alliets tried to stop a Imperialist who said: "Today Germany and tomorrow the whole world." Saddam never had such intentions. Now they threaten Syria with the same argument: Mass-destruction-weapons.

Is it a wonder that Putin is angry? Is it a wonder that China tries to build space weaons today? Will it be a new cold war, because of the non existent nuclear bombs in Iraq?

[J@n@]

nothing left to say. you already said everything.

[beancurdturtle]

Wow ad-miral. I might not agree with everything you said, or agree 100% with your conclusions. However, you did a great job at expressing your opinion, and your thoughts and interpretation of fact that support your opinion.

I'd like to see more posts like this.

But... You know. The "My country is wonderful. We have beautiful countryside and delicious food. What do you think?" are fun too. But then I want to go everywhere and eat everything.

Anyway. Well written and well said sir.
_________________
Daniel

�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss

[pugachevV]

You forgot to mention Ahmedinejad in Iran, who has said he wants to wipe Israel off the map and who does intend to have nuclear weapons and whose army goosesteps like the old time nazis.

[k.m.m]

[ad-miral]

thanks! I didn't expect such a good flashback