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Should Japan sincerely apologize again for World War II ?
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ontheway



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Should Japan sincerely apologize again for World War II ? Reply with quote

During these weeks ,Janpanese minister doubted again and again about Military brothels in World War ll which had been confirmed by the World court in the end of the World War ll. I feel so disgusted about the voice from a country thought to be beautifull and industrial developed.
Monster's deeds had been taken by Old Japenese military to most asia people and even the people of US and Europe, which can not be doubted.
Even to me,I have got so many stories from my grandfather and gramma about Old Japan devil. The tears and blood is still visible and provable by now.
A good country is not one never makes mistakes,but one can confess from them and do even better .Why can not Japan be a Man like Germany which has been forgived by his neighbors and other countries he hurted. How dare Japan to imagine a Political supercountry in the world .
If you wanna know about a man , get it form his neighbor.
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+Immune+



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Warsaw/Poland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A good country is not one never makes mistakes,but one can confess from them and do even better .Why can not Japan be a Man like Germany which has been forgived by his neighbors and other countries he hurted.


First of all, The Germans have never apologized for their actions during II World War. This is a good example of political propaganda which does not differ few historians from the official attitude of the goverment. Needless to say, these two differ markedly.
Secondly, do you really think Japan should apologize? Why do we have to apologize for the mistakes that were made by our fathers and grandfathers...? Why do you want Japan to be an exception? Have you ever heared of Russian politicians apologizing for invading Poland on September 17th in 1939 or Afghanistan in 1979? Have the Europeans apologized for the results and outcomes of the colonialism? The Vietnam War, Iraq or even the so-called terroristic attack on World Trade Center in 2001? Were they all followed by a strong feeling of commiseration and understanding of occasioned harm from the aggresor? If "no" is the answer to each of the above, then you should really think before accusing Japan of being not politically correct or as you put such a damning construction: "be a Man".

Almost 65 years have passed and thereby I think that accusing each other of raping or murdering and vying to get a proof which side is more responisble for an outbreak of the conflict is absolutely pointless and immature! You're right that we should remember who we are, be aware of our origin, history and customs handed down through the generations but please, let's do everything not to be a part of the downward spiral of hatred which is currently spining around.
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ontheway



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply.I think we are communicating ,but not quarreling.I have to say sorry for my unmannered words. However,I preserve my standpoint.
You said "The Germans have never apologized for their actions during II World War.". I have to say "appologize" does not only mean words or speech but actions.
When have you seen a German worshiping or kneeling for Nazy or Hitler in public,but Japanese do. when have you seen a japanese minister kneeling before Monument of asia deaths caused by old Japan,but Germans did.
Willy Brandt ,1970's German president,made a visit to Porland Brandt's visit will be remembered as a gesture of German contrition for crimes committed against Poland's Jewish population during World War II, when he knelt down in front of the Monument of the Warsaw Ghetto Heroes.
I have to recall u that Honored Willy Brandt ,a president ,representitive for a country,was not a Nazy ,but in the opposite ,he was a anti-Nazy.Why did he Kneel for the guilty not caused by him.
History is just like this. We angered not cos the hatred,but because the fear of redisplaying the history. So many people died in the war,chinese ,Korean ,Filipino ,American and Japanese.Why did Japanese worship the devil in the holy temple? I deeply puzzled. It's his own affair? I am afaid not.
Please respect the deaths ,even not caused by you.
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wiwi



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 22
Location: singapore

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:10 am    Post subject: a singaporean student stand,who is having history o'lvl 2007 Reply with quote

i don't think japan should apologize for the cause of world war 2,japan had received the punishment already,the atomic bomb at hiroshima and nagasaki had almost destroyed this two islands even till today the radiation effect is still brought along through generations,why u can't think?how many innocents had been killed in this war and the effect is still brought through generations even after 62 years!many of the babies there were born with a poor health state,isn't the america was too harsh to bom this 2 islands?let bygones be bygones,there will be no ending of pointing finger to who should be blamed,remember when u point a index finger to other,four of your fingers pointed back to your direction. Surprised
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asterix



Joined: 26 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can see Germans honouring their dead soldiers in places in Germany and at war cemeteries in France.
In some cases they honour their dead alongside the men they fought against - who are also homouring their own dead.
In Europe, they suck it up and get on with their lives.
What is the point of dredging up old grudges about long past atrocities? It does not lead to peaceful co-existence.
It would be more useful to forgive your old enemies and extend the hand of friendship to them.
Almost everyone who took part in WW2 is dead, or soon will be, so the whole thing is pointless, but probably is encouraged by some government to distract attention from its own shortcomings.
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hoshi



Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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Location: At the best place of your dreams :D Loveland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: a singaporean student stand,who is having history o'lvl Reply with quote

wiwi wrote:
japan had received the punishment already,the atomic bomb at hiroshima and nagasaki had almost destroyed this two islands even till today the radiation effect is still brought along through generations


I think that all the world is affected by those atomic bombs. The radiation is in all the world not only in japan so the punishment was for all the countries in the world.

Also I think that japan is not the only country which has to appologize, all the countries which fought during the second world war have to appologize.

But all this were past actions and we have to take care about the future
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wiwi



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 22
Location: singapore

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: ehmm... Reply with quote

i mean the radiation at those 2 islands,hiroshima and nagasaki are much higher compared to the other part of japan. Wink ,well we should not luve in past hatred and grudges,the point for learning history is not for blaming here and there for a war caused,but to learn from mistakes that war should not taken place at all. Exclamation
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ontheway



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Japan had got any punishment for the war. Someone may mention the atomic bomb, which is cost of the war,not the punishment.
because there was no reparations, no division, even no truly appologize,but got much help from their enemies ,US and their neighbors.

Dont get me wrong, I am arguing against , never the japanese soldiers in the war, but the war criminals and the spirit of Nazy which are still worshiped by some of Japanese, including some political ministers. Is it unreasonable that victims want to get their appologize?

That is all right that we should set more to the future . But we still have to check out what the future is.
During 50 years after the war, Japan has got great development in economy and politic. And it had got great identification from their neighbors and victims which suffered in the war. Why do we recall this unpleased events ? Because we can see the old Japan has been gradually penetrated to this new and developed Japan. No exaggerate to say, the spirit of Nazy has come back. Look at the realationship of Japan and his neighbors.If we don not fight against it , the future will definitely be, another world war ll.


Japan is one of the exellent nations in the world. It has great enegy in economy ,politic, Democracy, and also the war if happen. We can not avoid all the conflicts in the world , but we can choose to avoid bigger one. Asking for appologize , not because we want to be Japanese enemies, but friends which can last forever.
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+Immune+



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Warsaw/Poland

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ontheway, I might be wrong but it appears that every single word of yours is spoiled with a great feeling of enviousness. I don't think that Japan has become one of the world most developed and powerful countries because of II World War. Some politicians and historians were pretty certain Japan would not be able to stand up and regain its former strength after USA has dropped two nuclear bombs on two Japanese cities. Contrary to all expectations and prospects after the war, it is now economically sustainable and independent which is a proof of an incredibly hard work done out there.
To be honest, I can't make out your point of view. You listed the examples of people and governments that have apologized for the actions they were not responsible for, in order to underline that such attitude had never been seen among Japanese. In addition you stress afterward that the words of apologize are not enough and the real proof of humble intensions is agreeing with the defeated side. Do you really think that the best and righteous way to solve this matter is to find all of the people who are responsible for military actions during the war and sentence them to life or even threaten with the death penalty and eventually execute for committed crime? Needless to say, 99% of them are already dead, as Asterix had previously written.

I can see nothing here but a willingness of taking part in a perpetual vendetta. You want to punish all the guilty ones left? Maybe it would be a good idea if you kill all of their children and relatives as well, burn their houses and towns they live in to the ground and celebrate on their funerals as an act of vengeance. You see, it is believed that there is no easier thing than condemning people and their actions. Instead you can forgive them but it requires great courage, bravery and spirit. I don’t mean to forget about the terrible things we have suffered from them and pretend nothing had happened but just to be willing to understand somebody’s fault. We are all humans, none of us is perfect and everybody makes some mistakes from time to time. Instead of complaining about redisplaying history by others, firstly, we should judge ourselves…
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Bob S.



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Location: So. Cal

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asterix wrote:
What is the point of dredging up old grudges about long past atrocities? It does not lead to peaceful co-existence.
It would be more useful to forgive your old enemies and extend the hand of friendship to them.
Almost everyone who took part in WW2 is dead, or soon will be, so the whole thing is pointless, but probably is encouraged by some government to distract attention from its own shortcomings.
I gets dredged up yet again because PM Abé is the Asian equivalent of a holocaust denier and has been making some nonsense statements again to placate his rightwing nationalist base.
The latest Japanese attrocities excuse was that the women taken as sex slaves for the imperial army were just prostitutes anyway. Imagine you had an aunt that was raped. And the man she accused of doing it denied ever doing anything wrong, and his son says, yeah and even if he did do it she wanted it and deserved it anyway. How would you feel? Imagine the political outrage if the President said that, 200 years ago, Africans volunteered to be relocated from Africa to go to work on American plantations.

hoshi wrote:
Also I think that japan is not the only country which has to appologize, all the countries which fought during the second world war have to appologize.
What nonsense is that? What has Britain got to appologize for? What has Australia or China got to appologize for? Not surrendering the the Axis armies?
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ontheway



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

!! I have to focus here again that I am not natioanalist , even I did not ever stand on a sigle nation . I am standing on the people suffered by Nazi who are bound to be respected.

!! I need to announce again that Japanese People who want peace. dead and left, are victims who should not be blamed for. It should be blamed that the politician and group who worship Nazi and war criminals and deny their crime .

+Immune+, can you list out what I am envying for?
Is it your justice view that Nazy and war criminals should be worshiped who had been sentenced guity by the whole world? Is it your justice view that dead and alive who suffered by Nazi nations has no need to be respected ? Is it your justice view that dening sin old story of Nazi's is reasonable to be ignored ????
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+Immune+



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Warsaw/Poland

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To begin with, I want to underscore that I am polish if somebody has not figured that out yet. I do not write that in order to show how great loss we suffered during the Second World War and what consequences we had to bear because of it. It is not a feeling of presumptuousness, pride or haughtiness either. I intend to emphasize how difficult it is for me to be of opinion that we should forgive our persecutors and start over. Why do I say that? Probably because I do not believe in people’s honesty and justice. I have been chewing the problem since we started this discussion and I have come to realize that punishing all of the war criminals is simply impossible and unreal. Of course, you may bring forward a counter-argument that it is obvious we are not able to find and judge all of them but at least try to do it. I will tell you one thing, just think of hitherto actions of international organizations and value their work. Nuremberg Trials? It was nothing but a farce and a way of maintaining a clear conscience. The only nation which could successfully fight for its rights and restoration of dignity were the Israelis. But again, was the trail of Adolf Eichmann moral and according to an international law – correct in a way it was conducted? This issue is not as one-sided as it seems to be at first sight. We often forget about providing valuable proofs and instead, we base on our feelings and beliefs. How can we be capable of making a judgement who was more responsible than others? Who committed a crime, a soldier who shot a pregnant woman or a commander who gave such order but had never taken aim at anyone?

That is why I am convinced we should stop enumerating the costs of war and at long last start a process of reconciliation. We are obliged by our forefathers to remember but also, as we are all humans, to be forgiving.




Bob S. wrote:
hoshi wrote:
Also I think that japan is not the only country which has to appologize, all the countries which fought during the second world war have to appologize.


What nonsense is that? What has Britain got to appologize for? What has Australia or China got to appologize for? Not surrendering the the Axis armies?


Bob, you do not seem to be credulous and so easily deceived but the thing you wrote about the UK is not 100% truth. Do you think that Germany has regained its former military and economic power (relative to the state of the year 1914) unnoticed and unexpectedly? Events that took place during the inter war period (approximately 20 years) were nothing but a political game and a try to make a takeover bid for the majority of European states. Almost every country took part in arms race in order to undermine the opposite.
International organizations and, what is more important, countries who had the reputation for being ardent protectors of morality and liberty (such as the United Kingdom, the United States of America and France) did not react in any way to Kristallnacht in 1938(a pogrom against Jews throughout Germany), the illegal annexation of Austria into Germany in 1938 (ger. Anschluss), the incorporation of Bohemia and Moravia (Czechoslovakia) in 1939, what de facto meant the beginning of an occupation of whole country. The outbreak of war was also followed by severe conflicts in the Middle East, the Second Italo-Abyssynian War which began in 1935, the Spanish Civil War of 1936-1939 and the Japanese-Chinese War which broke out in 1938. Therein lies the guilt of the countries that were aware of the forthcoming worldwide conflict but didn’t do anything to prevent it from happening or at least diminish substantially its implications. The only thing they were not conscious of is the fact that it would happen so soon.
Therefore I don’t think there is a group of countries that are responsible for an outbreak of the Second World War and a “Block of Saints” which is considered to be the victims of the mentioned above. The history is very complicated and misleading on many grounds, especially if one does not know it very well.

ontheway wrote:
!! I need to announce again that Japanese People who want peace. dead and left, are victims who should not be blamed for. It should be blamed that the politician and group who worship Nazi and war criminals and deny their crime.


Now, that is what you should call “the process of redisplaying history”! Whether we talk about the Japanese or the Germans, they’ve got one thing in common – each of the nations approved and supported every single decision made by their governments. In each of them one can observe a cult of the leader (either a politician like Hitler or an emperor like Hirohito) and nearly fanatical enthusiasm for the ruling class. Blaming only the party or politicians is very foolish and immature. After all, somebody had to vote for them, don’t you think? I suppose some people still don’t get it. In a war that was waged throughout the world there were not only the politicians and soldiers who took part in it. There were millions of people who were involved in the conflict, whole nations had to change their hitherto lives and prepare for military actions.

ontheway wrote:
Is it your justice view that Nazy and war criminals should be worshiped who had been sentenced guity by the whole world? Is it your justice view that dead and alive who suffered by Nazi nations has no need to be respected ? Is it your justice view that dening sin old story of Nazi's is reasonable to be ignored ????


I hope I do not have to answer all these questions as I have already explained my point of view. It is obvious that all of the persecutors should be punished but we all know this is an utopian vision. As I wrote, we should remember about the truth, worship our ancestors for a great and humane attitude during the war and of course deny every try at changing the history.

Nonetheless, I think that bringing in new allegations every week is absolutely pointless and would not lead to any breakthrough in negotiations or a dialogue between two countries that are at variance.
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hoshi



Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 564
Location: At the best place of your dreams :D Loveland

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob S. wrote:

hoshi wrote:
Also I think that japan is not the only country which has to appologize, all the countries which fought during the second world war have to appologize.
What nonsense is that? What has Britain got to appologize for? What has Australia or China got to appologize for? Not surrendering the the Axis armies?

Again...
all the countries which fought during the second world war have to appologize.
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ad-miral



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 1488

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

immune wrote:
First of all, The Germans have never apologized for their actions during II World War. This is a good example of political propaganda which does not differ few historians from the official attitude of the goverment. Needless to say, these two differ markedly.


First of all, the Germans apologize for their actions ALL THE TIME. In our history lessons, German lessons, half a book tells about the inhumanity of the Nazigermany, how inhuman they were, how they abuse people, jews etc. Nazigermany has been ruled by the party "NSDAP", and it also exists today, and the government now is trying everything to stop this party to be vowed again. I don't exactly know how the real situation in Japan is, whether they really refuse the history or whether there are misunderstandings, but your statement is anti-Semitic Laughing

Secondly. You can smash a small boy on the head, you can let him cry and run away, if the boy comes again and ask an apologize from you, you can say: "It's long ago, I don't have to apologize." Sure this can be very manly.

Just imagine: Your friend's grandpa has been killed by a soldier in a foreign country, but this country now negates the fact that their soldiers ever killed his grandpa. He is upsaid and wants justice. Do you tell him: "Oh it's long ago, forget about it, be a man." ?

Time can never mend a massacre. But we should promise to not let this happen again. That would be very friendly.

If they don't want, it's their problem. But then they are willing to continue the conflict.
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asterix



Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 1654

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm impressed by your command of English, Immune and you are talking good sense.
The problem with history is that it is written by the victors.
In every war there are war criminals on both sides, but the victors do not acknowledge it because, "to the victor, the spoils".
The only way this will EVER change is to avoid war altogether, but we are humans, and we seem to be unable to do that, so we try and fight wars according to some rules that politicians have thought up, to make it more palatable somehow to our religiously inspired consciences.
Should there be rules for something as vicious as war?
There's no good way to kill someone with the weapons we have now, but perhaps, if there were no rules, war might be seen as too terrible to contemplate.
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