Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[ilya]

Diana, i don`t play in such kinds of games. You edited that message and then told me that you wrote the other thing. I quoted not that message but before that you wrote he paid suiciders and edited this message the 29 of April.

[Diana]

Diana



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 126
Location: Guam, U.S.A.
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:25 pm Post subject: It was Saddam himself.

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It was Saddam himself who publically came out and awarded the checks for $25,000 to the family of the Palestinian suicide bomber. He himself said that he would provide the families of Palestinian suicide bombers for killing Israelis; and it turned out to be another incentive to kill Israelis.
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The above was the last post I posted, Ilya. It was posted on January 16th, and it was NOT edited. I posted this myself and made no changes. So, what does this post tell you? It was this last UNEDITED post that I wrote that actually corrected the previous post because I mistakenly left out the word "family." I guess you were unable to figure this one out yourself.

[Diana]

Oops! I read the wrong date!!! Silly me!!! I meant to say that I posted my last post April 26th. January 16th was the day I first signed in as a member of this site.

[ilya]

You avoid talking about mistakes of you and your government. You wrote. That`s a fact. And you saw that and corrected after my notice, and lied me that you didn`t write. It doesn`t matter that it was not last message. Or you want to say that only your last words mean something. I read that and i didn`t calculate. Was it last message or not?

[obelix]

You guys are getting a bit off track.
You are arguing about what has been said instead of what is going to happen to Iraq.
Saddam has gone and the people of Iraq SHOULD be better off. That is what is important.
If, however, the islamic tryrants merely replace the sucular tyrant then it will all have been a waste of time. I think America will do its best to ensure that this does not happen.

[daffodil]

Hi. everyone.
I think what kind of war is too bad.
Ithink Bush should kill Husein by himself! This way is very fast and easy. Bush has already committed a crime! I hate him so much.
We don't need to feel dilemma about Iraq war.
The best bad things in all oveer the world is the WAR!

[wing]

[Diana]

[ilya]

You are funny guys. We came here to have practise. That`s all. And never mind what is talking about for me. Does it happened or not? Hundreds years ago or a few, or it only would be.
And Diana, i agree with almost all the world who against this war (if you like to show that somebody has the close opinion to yours).
You don`t read my messages becouse you don`t even try to talk about anything except "Saddam is a scram, iraqi are happy now". I know that. I didn`t deny that, did i?
You have something else to say or you will continue to sing us your American old songs.

[obelix]

Diana is singing her American song because she is American, just as you are singing your Russian song, Ilya.
As long as we are doing English for practice we should remember that some people are seriously believing what they write and not merely using it as an exercise. For example we could be cynical about the Russian attitude and believe their opposition to the attack on Iraq was because they had just signed new oil leases with Saddam, at preferential rates and now they are worried that they will lose that advantage.
But at least, Russia has always been a friend and arms supplier to Saddam and has made no secret of it.
In the case of France and Germany, it has been revealed that they have both been supplying Iraq with all kinds of proscribed armaments and other dubious technology worth billions of Euros every year, all the time talking sternly to Saddam for public consumption.
These two countries are members of the NATO alliance, which has just been exposed as worthless. They talk a good story, but when push comes to shove, they are running away with Turkey and hiding in the Seraglio.
Sto lyet.

[ilya]

Obelix, yiu think that I sing russian song becouse our president and Russia in UN were against this war as me? But i don`t avoid to talk about mistakes of my country. For example in Chechnya. So, in some matters i will sing anti-russian songs.
About oil contracts. Of course we want to save our contracts. But it`s difficult to save them if you protest against the war and politics of USA. Becouse after war USA will not even talk about them. So, if we only carry about oil contracts we sould have supported USA in this war and helped USA and oil contracts will be ours.
Iraq didn`t pay his debts to Russia. Never. And oil contracts didn`t work becouse the resolutions of UN. So, there was not serious point to save this regime for Russia. And everybody realizes that this regime should have been gone. But how it should be done. Yeah, the war was happened. But we can have one more, two more. When will USA be stopped? We fight with terrorists but not with countries. There are terrorists in every country.
Most of all Russia worries about stabilization in Asia regoin.
Obelix, Let`s talk about Russian problems, about difficult Soviet past and so on. I sing clever songs, even they are not russian. If i will be even in this country alone with this opinion.

[obelix]

Ilya,
I read some time ago that the reason the Soviet Union did not last was because the central planning of an economy that big required more computing power than was available at the time. The author said that if the Russian revolution had happened today there would be no problem in that regard.
If you take the cynical view that most of mankind is motivated by either fear or greed, you would have to assume that greed was the stronger of the two imperatives because the greedy capitalist system was more successful than the fear-driven soviet one.
It is a sad commentary on mankind.
On the face of it, the ideal of communism - that everyone is equal and shares in the wealth of the country - is appealing but it can never really be a practical system.
First, the politicians have more power than the worker in the steel plant.
If the steel plant worker goes on strike because he is not being paid enough for his hard work, he is accused of sabotaging the economy and so on.
The police, judges, jail guards, have more power than the rest of the people.
The secret service, such as KGB has most power.
Some of this is also true of the capitalist system but that system does not say that everyone shares the wealth and there are some built in ways of curbing the power of the police and secret services.
I have friends who lived under communist government and their complaint was that if you worked hard you got paid the same as Fred who showed up half drunk and slept in the boiler room most days and nobody did anything about it and because everybody was guaranteed a job, many people were paid for doing nothing, even if they showed up for work clean and sober.
I know there is much more to it than this; the relentless competition between the NATO countries and USSR diverted trillions of dollars and rubles into armaments that were never used. The whole world could be driving fine cars and living well, if that money had been used differently, but it wasn't.
Russia is trying the democratic system, now and the transition was very harsh, I think.
Only in China does the communist system seem to be working reasonably well.

[ilya]

Obelix, you have excelent understanding what in USSR was bad. And it was a great analyse, comparing capital and soviet systems.
The communism is utopia. USSR was fallen by many reasons. And of course it was not because of a low level of computer system. Some reasons are soviet economy was exhausted: money were spent on the military, Space and exploring of universe, some crazy projects. In USSR the current man was nothing, many people died for building railway road and etc. USSR wanted to be the first in the world and spent all his money for this. So, USSR prodused only military products and something like that. There were a deficit of products of wide customs (clothes, cars, furniture and so on). You had to queue for many years in order to buy a car. You had to pass a lot waste-paper in order to buy some books (you could not get waste-paper anywhere because every person collect himself, and everybody had to collect only buyed newspapers by himself). But we had tanks, bombs and other rubbish. But people live suffering.
And by the moment of breaking Soviet system (1985) there were constant problems with food. And Gorbachev had to start reforms in order to save the regime or it could be a revolution. And soviet people learnt some freedom.
In 1991 there was hunger because of the deficit of food. Then there was a rebellion. There were tanks in Moscow and so on. So, we became free.
But completly it finished only in 1993 when there was a rebellion prodused by some communists in Parliament. Eltzin had to give an order to shoot in the House of Parliament by tanks.
Capital system has some problems too, but it is the best known way to live. China economy is capitalistic, but social-politic system is still practically communistic. But they change in this field also. China has been taking reforms step by step. Russia opened the gates at once and a democratic ocean absorbed us. The results that we have freedoms, but we also have very high-level of criminal, uncompetitive economics and others.

[obelix]

It must have been rough for many Russians. I imagine old people on a pension were the worst hit.
What's your opinion on Putin and the "New Russia?"

[ilya]

Obelix, i don`t know what exactly you want to know about him. As far as New Russia is concerned there is no New Russia.
We have been fighting against terrorism since 1999. The whole world didn`t want to recognise that there were terrorists in Chechnya. And after the 11 of September we just repeated old words. But the whole world was surpised that we supported USA. For us it seemed strange how they were surpised.
The whole world should have been support us before the 11 of September. But they understood what terrorism is only after the 11 of September.