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What do you think the difference between good and evil?
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hiroka



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 9:34 am    Post subject: What do you think the difference between good and evil? Reply with quote

Various religions teach this kind of actions are good and that kind of actions are evil. I believe, though, the question of what good is and of what evil is cannot or should not be answered without deep thoughts being put. Geoge Bush claimed Iraque,Iran and North Korea to be The Axis of Evil and he seems to kill uncountable numbers of people in Iraque. Why ? Is America the Nation of good will? Here I'd like you to deeply think what establishes 'good' and what establishes 'evil'. I'll be looking forward to your responses. Hiroka[/b]
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pugachevV



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:22 am    Post subject: good & evil Reply with quote

There is no good or evil. There just is.
Still, we like some things better than others and so it is all about judging a thing or event.
America has been attacked by terrorists, this is a fact. It is not good or bad but it has provoked the USA into dealing militarily with those it considers responsible. One of those it considers culpable is Saddam Hussein.
I do not know if Saddam is behind the terrorist attacks or if he really has "weapons of mass destruction" but America says he has and probably has the intelligence to back it up. America also seems intent on attacking Iraq, or at least getting Saddam to go into exile.
None of us will ever know the whole truth about this because everybody is lying to make their own actions seem better than the other side's in an attempt to gain the approval of the world.
It seems most likely that America is shortly going to invade Iraq, no matter what.
If it results in peace in that area of the world, it may have been worth doing.
The real problem in the Middle East is that the Arabs hate the Jews and want to see them all dead. America is a supporter and ally of the State of Israel and so by extension the Arabs hate the USA.
The problems there are not the doing of the USA but of the UN and particularly of the governments of Britain and France, whose past double dealing and treachery in the area are at the root of all the trouble.
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chi-kei



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Location: http://hk.geocities.com/chikei1984

PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 3:22 am    Post subject: Good and Evil Reply with quote

Indeed,
Good and Evil are a kind of moral value,
which are nomative, no one can prove their rightness,
majority say that it is right, others should be follow.
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hiroka



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi! Hiroka. I think what you call 'good' things and 'evil' things can be rephrased by 'the things that cause happiness to yourself and others' and 'the things that cause you and others to have some suffering'. Suppose you hate someone else for example, as far as you cannot get rid of the hatred you have to him or to her, you will never ever enjoy a real happiness. You cannot be happy because of the hatred in your heart. And the hatred you have may eventually cause you to do something terrible to the person you hate. This person afflicted by you may have a family, a wife, children and so on who originally have nothing to do with the hatred you had to their father or to her husband. And then they will begin to hate you and your cherished family. The hatred, the source of sufferings will spread in this way. If you don't call it 'evil', then what else can you think of? Suppose you love and have compassionate heart to someone else, it will make not only him or her and yourself but their families and other people related with him or her happy and filled with comfortable mind. They will try to give the love and the compassion back to you by trying to make you happy. If you do not call such a heart and actions good, then how do you think we should call it? Good and evil: they are just a kind of moral value? I hope people can be a little bit deeper thinkers than the ones just saying things as this!
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dduck



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 109
Location: Scotland/Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 2:01 pm    Post subject: Things that cause happiness Reply with quote

Quote:
I think what you call 'good' things and 'evil' things can be rephrased by 'the things that cause happiness to yourself and others' and 'the things that cause you and others to have some suffering'.


I spent many weeks, and months, trying to define what "good" and "evil" really means, but kept on going round and round in circles. These terms are so abstract it's very easy to become lost in them!

I think, Hiroka, you're definition is the best one I've seen - it's so clear!

Iain
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wing



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 7:57 pm    Post subject: Partly agree... Reply with quote

hiroka wrote:
I think what you call 'good' things and 'evil' things can be rephrased by 'the things that cause happiness to yourself and others' and 'the things that cause you and others to have some suffering'.

If you do not call such a heart and actions good, then how do you think we should call it? Good and evil: they are just a kind of moral value? I hope people can be a little bit deeper thinkers than the ones just saying things as this!



I agree that evil can be defined as building your happiness on someone's sufferings, but it is just part of explanation for individuals to distinguish the morality preferred by many other people or society. In many cases, however, the motives of humans in conducting the so-called evil deeds are always more than for happiness, or not caused by hatred but probably by self-defence, self-righteousness and such emotions that drive people inevitably to act badly. Similarity, conflicts among nations are triggered partly by hatred or happiness ( a victory?), as well as involvement of incentives and ties with other like-minded allies which supports are crucial to one another.

Let's-talk-about-love approach is impractical and quite vulnerable in negotiations especially with those who are less willing to place a value on it, although it is a good one in truth. Despite the discovery of the empty warheads at Iraqi military storage area, so far the US is still awaiting the conclusion of UN inspectors whether Iraq violates UN resolutions so as to justify its military action. It is on the rightful way to the country, I would say. And I would not call it evil or not.


Last edited by wing on Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Hala



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: good & evil Reply with quote

pugachevV wrote:
There is no good or evil. There just is.
Still, we like some things better than others and so it is all about judging a thing or event.
America has been attacked by terrorists, this is a fact. It is not good or bad but it has provoked the USA into dealing militarily with those it considers responsible. One of those it considers culpable is Saddam Hussein.
I do not know if Saddam is behind the terrorist attacks or if he really has "weapons of mass destruction" but America says he has and probably has the intelligence to back it up. America also seems intent on attacking Iraq, or at least getting Saddam to go into exile.
None of us will ever know the whole truth about this because everybody is lying to make their own actions seem better than the other side's in an attempt to gain the approval of the world.
It seems most likely that America is shortly going to invade Iraq, no matter what.
If it results in peace in that area of the world, it may have been worth doing.
The real problem in the Middle East is that the Arabs hate the Jews and want to see them all dead. America is a supporter and ally of the State of Israel and so by extension the Arabs hate the USA.
The problems there are not the doing of the USA but of the UN and particularly of the governments of Britain and France, whose past double dealing and treachery in the area are at the root of all the trouble.
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Hala



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: good & evil Reply with quote

The real problem in the Middle East is that the Arabs hate the Jews and want to see them all dead. America is a supporter and ally of the State of Israel and so by extension the Arabs hate the USA.
The problems there are not the doing of the USA but of the UN and particularly of the governments of Britain and France, whose past double dealing and treachery in the area are at the root of all the trouble.[/quote].....
Hi Pugachev V
In fact Arab don't hate Jews, but they are against occupation. Israel or Phlastine Sould be state for all relegions. There are Jews against occupation too. We love them and we respect them. Smile
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wing



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: good & evil Reply with quote

Hala wrote:

In fact Arab don't hate Jews, but they are against occupation. Israel or Phlastine Sould be state for all relegions. There are Jews against occupation too. We love them and we respect them. Smile


Hi Hala,

Could you tell me why people in the past hated Jews?
Some information I read records they could not always practise they faith freely in history. Constantly they were sent into exile, killed, massacred, and then allowed to worship their God. After that, they flourished again. Temples were restored or rebuilt.
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Hala



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: good & evil Reply with quote

[quote="wing"][quote="Hala"]
In fact Arab don't hate Jews, but they are against occupation. Israel or Phlastine Sould be state for all relegions. There are Jews against occupation too. We love them and we respect them. :)[/quote]

Hi Hala,

Could you tell me why people in the past hated Jews?
Some information I read records they could not always practise they faith freely in history. Constantly they were sent into exile, killed, massacred, and then allowed to worship their God. After that, they flourished again. Temples were restored or rebuilt.[/quote]
Hi Wing
In the history people hate jews for so many reasons. This some written in book ( why Jews).
1- Most Christians think that Jesus killed by Jews.
2- Jews possess too much wealth and power. 3-( The protocols of the Elders of Zion) This book was very published in the history . It made pepole hate Jews. Jews say about this book is fabrication by the Russian secret police.
4- Jews orrogantly claim they are God's chosen pepole.
5- German anti- semitism ( Nazi) think that , Jews are a convenient group to single out and they plame Jews for their trouble.
6- Out sider hate Jews because they are different( dress, lows, language)
7- Some Prejdice hate Jews because they are inferior race.
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wing



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: good & evil Reply with quote

Thanks a lot, Hala. Among those reasons, it sounds to me the last one is not quite rational. Do you know why some consider Jews inferior?
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Hala



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 8:31 am    Post subject: Jews nose Reply with quote

Hi Wing
Jews are not a race , Becaus there are White Jews, Black Jews, Arabic Jews, Eastern European, Russian Jews. Even it was a study talking about Jews nose, But I can't see the different between Arabic nose or Israel nose. In my opinion it just stupid reason to hate Jews.
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wing



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 193

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Jews nose Reply with quote

Hala wrote:
Hi Wing
Jews are not a race , Becaus there are White Jews, Black Jews, Arabic Jews, Eastern European, Russian Jews. Even it was a study talking about Jews nose, But I can't see the different between Arabic nose or Israel nose. In my opinion it just stupid reason to hate Jews.



Yep, a stupid one. Thanks, Hala.
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pugachevV



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 7:05 am    Post subject: Religion Reply with quote

The Jews and the Arabs are both semitic people. The difference is RELIGION.
I have been told that there are many similarities between Islam and the Jewish religion, so we may well wonder what all the killing and hatred in the middle east is about.
It is about power and land.
Jews and Arabs lived peacefully together in Israel until the end of the second world war.
Britain and France had promised both the Arabs and the Jews that Israel would be theirs and, naturally, when it came time to make good on their promises, they could not do it and handed the whole mess over to the League of Nations (now the UN).
The British government (a socialist government at the time) then ran away and withdrew all their troops.
The Jews declared that Israel was theirs and put in place a government and all the institutions of state.
Israel, today is the only democracy in the middle east and although it is a nation of around 5 million people it has survived three all out attacks by its Arab neighbours who number around 300 million.
Because the Arabs cannot beat the Israelis by normal military means they have resorted to terrorism and still the Israelis will not yield.
In the meantime the Palestinians are living in poverty, (Except Arafat and his cronies) because the money the Palestinian Authority is receiving from the USA and the rest of the world to improve the lives of the people is being spent on weapons instead.
This is the basis of the hatred that exists between the Jews and the Arabs. It is being fuelled by the Imams who are preaching hatred in the mosques and in the schools which are teaching young Palestinians that they should hate the Jews and by the parents of those same children.
It is also being fuelled by support from Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudia Arabia and others, who are supplying money and weapons and training terrorists.
You could also say the USA is implicated because of its support for Israel.
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dduck



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 109
Location: Scotland/Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:18 am    Post subject: Religion Reply with quote

Hi pugachevV,

That's my basic understanding of the situation too. Do you have any idea how both sides might achieve peace?

Iain
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