Site Search:
 
Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Grammar

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Help Center
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
NazAf



Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Grammar Reply with quote

Hi,
I would be grateful if you could answer my old post. I think you haven't seen it.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/student/viewtopic.php?p=113452#113480

Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rice07



Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 385

PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

First of all, I believe Greg is right!

Cited 'Practical English Usage' (third edition) as saying:

Many common ideas in English are expressed by noun + noun compounds. In this structure, the first noun modifies or describes the second, a little like an adjective. Compared:

a horse race (a kind of race)

a race horse (a kind of horse)

Note that the first noun is usual singular in form, even if it has a plural meaning.

e.g. a horse race (= a race for horses)

More advanced points on 'noun + noun', see entry 386(on pages 358 - 361). Also see entries 439, 440 (on pages 414 - 416) for details on ' noun + 's '.

In some classifying expressions we use a structure with possessive 's. This is common when we are talking about things that are used by a person or animal: the first noun refers to the user.

children's clothes

a man's sweater

women's magzines

a bird's nest

Generally, either both nouns are singular or both are plural.

a child's toy

childen's clothes

but

a women's magazine

Not all ' used by ' expressions have possessive 's.

baby clothes

a birdcage

British and American usage sometimes differ. Compare:

a baby's bottle (BrE)
a baby's pram (BrE)
a doll's house (BrE)
a baby bottle (AmE)
a baby carriage (AmE)
a doll house (AmE)

The 's structure is often used for products from living animals.

cow's milk
a bird's egg
sheep wool
(But camel hair,horsehair)

When the animal is killed to provide something, we usually use noun + noun .

calf skin
fox fur
chicken soup

We use 's structure to talk about parts of people's and animals' bodies.

a man's leg
an elephant's trunk

But to talk about parts of non-living things, we usually the noun + noun structure.

a table leg (NOT a table's leg)

a car door (NOT USUALLY a car's door)

Which expession is used? noun + noun, noun + 's + noun, or preposition structure?

This is a very complicated area of English grammar.The 'rules' given above show the general patterns, but unfortunately there is no easy way to be quite sure which structure is used to express a particular compound idea. The most common expressions will be learnt by experience; in case of doubt, a good dictionary will often show which form is correct. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

dragn wrote:
All is a dangerous word.

dragn wrote:
As is usually the case in English, however, there are plenty of exceptions. I am sorry to report that there is no single rule that will guide you to the perfect answer in every case.


I couldn't agree with you more.
Shocked Wink

Sincerely
rice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NazAf



Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks rice07. At least, it is now clear to me.

I have been learning English for so many years, but I still cannot figure this out. It is really so hard - so many exceptions to the rule.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Help Center All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Dave's ESL Cafe is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Banner Advertising | Bookstore / Alta Books | FAQs | Articles | Interview with Dave
Copyright © 2018 Dave's ESL Cafe | All Rights Reserved | Contact Dave's ESL Cafe | Site Map

Teachers College, Columbia University: Train to Teach English Here or Abroad
SIT
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group