Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[alucard]

Well I'm just going to rant about something that happened to me in the past and that i posted on another forum. I was in an elevator with my friend who happens to have been borned here .. We were talking in Spanish of course and there was this middle age white lady next to us in the elevator and the !!@%@ said to us : "This is America! Speak English!" so my friend turned around and talked to her in perfect native English : This is a free country and people can speak in any languages they want
the lady sure had nothing to say to that lol
I don't know why many Americans feel weird or something when other people speak other languages, is like they think we are speaking behind their backs or something, that's one thing that has always bothered me, and no offense to anyone, is the assumption that people HAVE to speak English just because they're in America. I have heard many people say that if people want to come and live in America they need to speak the language. But English is one of the most difficult languages in the world to learn. How are people supposed to learn it before they come here? I know that many countries teach English in schools, but not all do. It's far easier to learn when you are surrounded by the language all of the time (hence, while you are living here)
You know, most Americans will go to other countries not knowing how to speak the language and still try to force those people to speak English, which I think is very rude and arrogant, For instance, many Americans will travel to Paris, but not know any French at all, so they go around asking everyone if the speak English, most people have no problem helping those who can't speak the language well if you at least make an effort at trying; but if you just go around speaking in English and don't try, people get angry and won't help you.
I guess my point is, it doesn't matter where we are, in America or in another country, we ALWAYS seem to want people to speak English. I don't think we're any better than anybody else, so having a billboard sign in another language just doesn't matter to me and I don't know why people make such a big deal about that stuff all of the time-like when people complain that we are in America but you press 1 for Spanish and 2 for English....who cares?!? Why make a big deal out of nothing?
We pride ourselves on being a "melting pot" of a culture, yet we criticize everything that is not specifically the same as how we as individuals live....

[Bob S.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxUm-2x-2dM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxuEBUXJ2rQ

[rice07]

Hi Bob S.

Thank you for sharing that.

[Bob S.]

[pugachevV]

It is stated as fact that there are 10 million illegal immigrants in the USA, the majority of whom are Spanish speaking people who make little or no effort to learn English.
Many people in the USA are angry that their laws are being broken by such people and feel frustrated that the US government cannot or will not deal with the problem.
Unfortunately, this may result in episodes such as the one you write about.

[rice07]

There had been a thought , in particular when some elections in Taiwan were bearing down, that being Taiwanese who COULD NOT speak Taiwanese(a co-official language spoken by people in Taiwan) ought to fall into the categories that they were NOT loyal to their country- Taiwan. It is merely, I had to say, one of the strategies for politicians to take for gaining their interests. The thought is biased and just too pan-politicized due to the fact that there are several languages(dialects) in Taiwan that are not official but they are truly being spoken by different groups of people in Taiwan that love Taiwan so much. How can some politicians spread that insular thought over people in Taiwan? So far the official language for people in Taiwan to speak is Mandarin, but I concede and am glad to see that now there are more and more people speaking Taiwanese. . I just disagree with the logical reasoning of that thought.

Frankly speaking, I surmise the most precious for human being to have, deeply in our spirit, is being reasonable to accept something different, or even innovative that is good for us. Given that broaden our horizons with getting to know cultural diversity of different countries(groups), I think there is a need for language barrier between different cultures to be removed, and that is why we learn languages. Language is a tool of communication. We can share our joy, anger, grief, and happiness by language. If we are willing to demonstrate our tolerance towards opinions different from our own, things would be fine for a great deal of unnecessary conflicts between people were avoided. That is my humble opinion.

Pardon my English, if I did not make what I was trying to say explicitly understood.

[xXx_Perla_xXx]

I totally agree with you alucard.
Something like that happened to me a week ago.
Rosibel and I (We're Mexicans) were just sitting down in our Culinary Art Class, and Rosibel does not speak english at all, so when I'm with her, we usually just speak spanish. And there the new student came and sat next to us, and she politely asked 'Why do you girls speak spanish?' I just didn't know what to say, I mean, what kind of question is that? I was kinda mad, I just said 'Well, since we are Mexicans, and our first language is Spanish, if we feel like it, We ARE going to speak spanish, Why do YOU speak English?' She just walked away and didn't look at us anymore. Still, it didn't feel good, I really do offend me when people ask that kind of questions. Speaking your first language is like part of yourself, you can't just put it aside because you live in another country, right?

[Veroz]

hi.. i am mexican and i speak spanish.spanish is a very usefull languge, because many countries like south america, central america, and parts of the united states people speak spanish.

[pugachevV]

Surely, if a new student asks you a reasonable question, in a polite way, you can reply in a polite and reasonable manner.
e.g. "My friend just got here from Mexico and doesn't speak English yet."
Instead you gave her "Attitude".
Spanish is a beautiful language - be proud of it. There is no need to be defensive.

[Bob S.]

Pugachev is right. Perla, you blew it. You say the woman asked you a question politely. Instead of answering politely, you copped an attitude and answered rudely. So the woman will go away thinking, what? I'm betting she doesn't encounter many Mexicanas there in Michigan, so her impression will be that Mexicans are rude. Good job promoting peace, harmony, and understanding.
_________________
"It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood." -- Karl Popper

[xXx_Perla_xXx]

Well, that may be, but I really didn't like the way she asked the question. One of my friends had an argument with her for the same reason and they both ended up with 2 days of Detention. Still, I think we're all free to speak however we want to. Aren't we? And Bob, you will be surprised there is a lot of Mexicans here, and I kinda like that, 'cus that way I don't get to feel all alone.
I pretty much like blew it, you are right, but here, we are used to that kind of behavior. Discrimination in the high school is very common, even with the teachers!

[mutienjo]

It's good to hear this story.

First of all I must tell you all that I am Thai who lives in Thailand among Thai culture and attitude that everything of 'Farang' (which mean foreigner who especially has white skin like European or American) is awesome. Western people are more intelligent than us (though I found out that it's not correct) and speaking English fluently is gorgeous.

I am a Thai person who speaks English fluently with American accent. So, I always receive a great complement from my Thai friends, my American's friends, my ex-bf, my family and everyone surrounds me. This brings me many good opportunity in my life that I can get good jobs with good salary and high respect from many, many people as well as scholarships and a chance to go to a TV show.

What I would like to say is ... sometimes I wonder, just only speak English well (or maybe much more greater than other Thai coz few people can), why it gives me so much more like this.

So, after I studied the world history, I realize that ... it might because of a successful of Westernization, Americanization, and also Globalization makes Thai people feel so respectful to most Farang they met. It started from the point lasted for more 100 years ago when Britain, France, Portugal,etc. wanted to expand their empire by taking others land step by step. When they came to Thailand, they showed how much powerful and civilizing they are via the technology, Thai people were amazed in response. And that feeling are continuing through that period until now.

Being American in another country might not be nice if they don't have a good feeling with the culture but not like in Thailand. I and my American's friends used to go to travel at the countryside together. Many times that Thai people pointed to them and called out 'Farang'. At first, my friends were question and feel uncomfortable and thought that Thai people were rude. But after that they found out the real fact that Thai people are truly feel grateful with them. We could have delicious food for free and so on after they found out these American can speak 'Sawasdee' and 'Khob Khoon' in Thai (which means Hello and Thank you).

This is an example that I would like to share to you all that we, Thai people, always feel like White people who something are higher position than us are interested in a very small country like this. We always been taught for century to studied English as a second language. Some people study English for more than 12 years and they can only express their feeling just only an easy greeting (not over more than that).

It happened like many White people that we know expect us to speak English. So, in Thai Bilingual school which they love to hire White people esp. British or American to teach the student, they always come to class and speak English only. They just want their student speak English which don't teach them well enough how.

Because I work as a private English teacher, most of my students who study in this kind of Bilingual school always told me these same story over and over again. Firstly, when I realized that I was hired to teach a student from an English program or Bilingual school, I had a high expectation that my student English skill will great, at least listening and speaking. I might need to teach them just only grammar. But after I met my students, I was disappointed for many many times.

Thus, what I would like to tell you guy is ... in an developing country. People always think that speak English is so great. It can bring you so far in your career (I don't have an argue of that.) But the bad thing is, they are too proud to speak English even they speak bad accent, bad grammar, bad condition, bad pronunciation and so on. Sometimes I heard many people here want to make a confident to themselves by speaking English, but they didn't realize about what they said that was wrong. It's ridiculous to see and hear Thai joker wants to look better than the other joker in their show by speaking English. Not only that, Thai singer and star loves to have bad Thai pronunciation of some alphabet if it quite similar to an English, to make them looks more great education.

So, what will you do in this country who 95% of people are too over and over proud to speak English no matter how bad English they are as long as they think they are right.

I think it's quite absurd as equal as some silly American wants all people around them to speak only English.
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Metiny D. Luffy :An intention of 'D' will stay with me forever

[Vermonter_84]

This is a great topic. I am a native english speaker born and raised in a place where there are very few foreigners. I have always thought the same thing about this though. I hate how people here in America want people to speak English. I mean the whole point of this country was to mix up a lot of cultures and it should be no suprise that there are still many different languages spoken in the country today. I'm currently staying in Los Angeles for a few months and I've heard several different Asian languages and a ton of Spanish and some Russian and Armenian. Why should it bother me. Now if they were blatantly mocking me or something I might take offense but who cares what language they speak to eachother. I think a big problem in the U.S. is that people want to know what other people are thinking about them and if they can't understand somebody they automatically think they're talking about them. It's a vanity thing, people here have a stick up their @$$&$ and frankly I find it annoying. I was not raised this way and I actually get along best with foreigners in my home country. I lived in San Diego for two years and never had a white friend. My friends all spoke Spanish and English(Try homemade manudo, it tastes way better than is sounds). Unfortunately for them I've never had an inkling for learning Spanish. I am trying to learn German right now and eventaully Russian and I will probably speak those languages as much as possible in the U.S. once I learn them. Just because I know it bothers everyone else. I can really mess with them when I switch to English and speak it fluently without any accent. I grew up in Vermont by the way, in case you can't tell.

[DMJY]

thanks for sharing that,I am behind you, we are say our own language.
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Tera ItemsEden GoldTera Gold

[ClarissaMach]

hmm... interesting topic! In a way, both sides are right.


I am currently studying Russian because my husband was raised in Russia and many of his friends as well as some of his relatives are Russian.

Every time we are among them, they only speak in Russian, and instead of getting annoyed, I perfectly understand. Actually I like it - I see it as an opportunity for 'sharpening' my listening skills.
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