Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[JonathanC]

Films, books, youth culture and male bonding - they all have one thing in common: they are contexts where vulgar English use is normal. Yet vulgar English is not taught (and, because of the embarrassment factor for both teacher and students, perhaps should not be taught). But if it's not taught, where can students learn this area of language? I am not just talking about the classic dirty words: the f-word, the s-word, the c-word and so on. There is a lot of informal idiomatic slang that is essentially vulgar. I have written a 352 page book Vulgar English & Sex Slang which can be only be bought from my website. I don't know what the policy is here about naming websites but if you google the name of the book I think you will find the site easily.

But what does everyone else think about this area of language and the problems it poses to both students and teachers?

[river1974]

To be honest, I've never felt like learning "vulgar English". It is not because that I consider myself as an elevated man or something, it's because that I don't think I'll have many chances to use it. I think most people learn English not just for fun or understanding the foreign culture, but for their working demand or passing some exams. Of course, learning different field of English is really funny, but now for me, learning how to write well and how to do an excellent translation job is more important. Sorry, the aforesaid is just my personal opionion. I really appreciate your effort on creating such a book for those who are interested in this field of English. And I sincerely Wish your new book sell well.

[LucentShade]

That sort of thing can be taught in more advanced classes, when students are moving beyond basic issues of grammar, writing, vocabulary, and pronounciation. After students reach an advanced level, they can move on to the vulgar stuff--they can add it to the idioms and slang that they already know to make their English more "English" by incorporating those expressions.

[Passerby]

That's really a shame when poeple speak vulgar English to me and I totally have no idea about it? Of course, that's not because of it's unclear or unproper for understanding nor it's disgraceful, it's a different way of communication.

First, that's hard to draw the definition on it. But, When you need to communicate with somebody whoes vulgar English has been a threat to you for a time and you jsut have to, what would you do? There's a fact that perfectly demonstrates how vulgar a foreign language would be when spoken in my country. Maybe it seems really greek to those native speakers but to us, strangely, we understand each other in our lousy vulgar learning language. The main reason, I understand your vulgar English.

I pressume, you don't really necessarily bother learning this kind of English, but as long as you are involved in this environment where vulgar language is fully domonating, you listen to it, try to understand the meanings and yes, I think it's the communication that counts and sometimes if others could understand what you say in no matter a vulgar language, as long as you understand, then why not, treat this language as a different form of art and beauty?

Passerby
_________________
I was once self-centered. That time, my world was small; I was once left behind. That was the way I treated others.
You are thinking what the hell this is but actually you know all this is about...

[LucentShade]

To respond to the previous reply, I wouldn't want to forbid people from learning vulgar English, especially if they are exposed to it a lot and need to understand it. In the early stages of learning, though, I believe that there are more important things to teach and practice.

[JonathanC]

OK. Some interesting points. First it's not worth learning? If your motivation is simply to do business in English and you have no interest in anything outside that functional value then you have a good point. However, if we take a businessman who has only learned English that will be useful for business then we send him to Chicago or London or Sydney, then it is very possible that he will find himself surrounded by language that he doesn't know if it is bad or not. All the time I am reminded of the Japanese boy who was shot dead in USA because he didn't understand 'freeze!' If your life connects to real life involving life in an English speaking country then it makes sense to inform yourself of this area of language. Actually there are three good reasons for learning this language. The first is to defend yourself, the second is because a lot of what I might call semi-vulgar terms '*beep* up' 'tart up' 'piss up' etc have entered normal English. The third reason, which Passerby has mentioned, is the fun factor. This area of English is the most creative - for example I have collected 1,500 different slang expressions for a woman's *beep*. These words range from insulting small *beep* (mosquito bites) complimenting small *beep* (champagne cups) to huge wonder at big *beep* (yomamas) and many other word families in between. You can get this list if you like free at my site(www.vulgarenglish.com) - this is funny. I see from the preview that some words are being beeped out. The first beep is for a common word referring to a man's equipment and the others are the standard word for what we would see iof a woman went topless.