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coffeedecafe
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 140
Location: michigan,usa
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 Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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let me take lieb's letter in reverse order. yes we do have the right to do what we want and that is part of the problem. human beings are not always nice and loving and unselfish. though we realize we should be- sometimes we just do not feel like it. and some people feel even less like it than us.
since we exist and realize the need for this world and the people of this world to change, the idea of good must be very old. even older than the idea of evil, since most of evil is corrupted good.
if the creator god was all-powerful and knew he could force outward peace without the terrible evil man can do still locked inside him just wanting to explode... would he make all humans robots for peace? or in his wisdom would he seek to win the love of those he has created to separate them from the control of that evil influence which has poisoned the good of our world. if there is no god, and you dream of one to comfort yourself- that is weakness. but if you discover one who truly exists, that is the way to sharing in the creators strength.
one curiosity question. of all the different beliefs of the people on this site:does the teaching that you each were brought up with tell you that god loves you?
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Anxious Heart
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| coffeedecafe wrote: |
| if there is no god, and you dream of one to comfort yourself- that is weakness[...] |
1) I doubt this generalization. If you really felt comfortable with a imagined god, although you "know", there is non, I wouldn't call this weakness. You need a lot of strength to admit, that you just dream your belief and nevertheless go on with dreaming. If your opinion of believing contains the opportunity to dream your god, I respect that, because this is one way to be happy and I assume it's not an easy one.
2) I don't like the contemptuous tone, which many people use, when they use the term "weakness". Where is the bad in giving up a fight, because you don't want to hurt anymore, you don't want to be hurt anymore or you don't believe in what you were fighting for any more? Sometimes it is much more difficult to let your ocstinacy behind you, maybe because there are some people, who are as pig-headed as you are..... I just want to say, that weakness is although a great part of the human being and unlike pig-headedness, rarely someone else gets hurt by weakness.
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coffeedecafe
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 140
Location: michigan,usa
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I just want to say, that weakness is although a great part of the human being and unlike pig-headedness, rarely someone else gets hurt by weakness.[/  i think that anxious heart is attached to intelligent mind. the comments i just read brought my thoughts to a different way of aproaching the topic.
it is when you acknowledge weakness that you are able to graciously receive strength from another. if i remember correctly, much of the strategy of judo is assuming the position of weakness and using the strength of the the adversaries against them. in my favorite book, an man named paul is told, my strength it made perfect in your weakness. but to receive strength from another beyond the comfort of nice thoughts your champion , or god, must exist and come to your aid... |
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liebe
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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To your question--coffeedecafe:
No, I don't remember ever to be being told that god loves me. I've studied about various religions in school, and they always seemed to me nothing but rules, rules and more rules you have to follow. But now that you've mentioned that, I remember that we were taught that God chose the Jewish people in Bible class in Israel (where I was raised), but I don't think any of us really believed that... The reality of the world seem to contradict it. We studied about the Concentration Camps, about Anti-Semitism and the [many, many, many...] wars Israel faced since its existence. We've often joked that God chose us to suffer and to be miserable.
One question to you, coffeedecafe. Did you "discover" God, or did you "dream of him to comfort yourself"? If you've "discovered" him, then how? |
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coffeedecafe
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 140
Location: michigan,usa
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| liebe wrote: |
wars Israel faced since its existence. We've often joked that God chose us to suffer and to be miserable.
One question to you, coffeedecafe. Did you "discover" God, or did you "dream of him to comfort yourself"? If you've "discovered" him, then how? |
no, liebe, i do not just dream of him to comfort myself. yet i have not 'discovered' him either. i am not strong enough or wise enough or old enough to discover a god who existed from the beginning and knows all things and has made all things. but he is a god who reveals himself. that is both the complaint of job in the hebrew bible and job's delight in the conclusion of the book. first job complained that he needed to talk to god and how could he when god was so big and so high. god would have to come down to job, job could not reach up to god. and god did speak to job. god turned jobs misery to blessing. through jobs life and book we see that god restrains even the hatred of satan not letting him do all the harm he would want. then the misery that has been caused, god turns back into good. you know, god did not choose the jewish nation arbitrarily. he chose one man who was his friend and obeyed god and believed what god said, and god accepted abrahams' faith in him and declared abraham righteous. through his son isaac, a peaceful man and a digger of wells the promise of a messiah was handed down. the proofs of a suffering messiah who came and died for the sins of his people are hundreds-all through the old testament. in the new testament the apostle paul says this of abraham-he staggered not at the promise of god through unbelief but was strong in faith, giving glory to god...and it was not written for his sake alone but for ours also who will receive if we believe on him that raised up jesus our lord from the dead.
i have not given you personal experiences as you probably thought i would because this is the type of information you can track down for yourself. i have had answers to prayer that are further proof to me of the presence of god, but i do not base my faith on those things. as far as why is there evil in the world? it is because there is a huge spiritual warfare between good and evil, and earth is part of the battleground. the jewish people will not suffer forever. god had the weeping prophet jeremiah write these words-this i recall to mind, therefore i have hope. it is of the lords mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. they are new every morning, great is your faithfulness. the lord is my portion says my soul, therefore i will hope in him. the lord is good unto those that wait for him, to the soul that seeks him. it is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the lord.- this is written right near the middle of lamentations.
the way i discovered him is i became convinced that he did exist and it was not just what i had been taught as a child, and i asked him to come into my heart and save me from my sin. then i moved to try to follow his way of life. i have both suceeded and failed, and even the failures have been a witness to me that his way is best. i hope i haven't talked too long?
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cubee
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| liebe wrote: |
hi Nietzche (did you name yourself after the German philosopher?),
I used to believe in God when I was a child, but I don't believe in him (or her) anymore. All the religions are essentially the same. They all talk about justice, about the "good guys" winning and being rewarded and the bad ones being punished. I'm sorry, but I don't see that happening... Look at our world. So many people are miserable, so few are happy. I don't see the "bad guys" being punished--all I see is those rich ignorant people using their power and money for their own good, and the rest of the people being miserable. Frankly speaking, I've been awfully unhappy for the last 2 years and I don't think I deserve it. If there was a God, there wouldn't have been so many wars, miseries, and poverty. |
i absolutely agree with you! |
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