Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[Ale R.U.]

For both:

I understand, that people ever want obtain a reason for the supernatural, for this before of Jesus, the people have many gods( The plant god, the sun god...) But it was for give an answer to the supernatural questions, but I am sure that something move the world, and it something is almighty and have control of everydetail of the nature.

I dont thing that perfect and infinitve and infinitely world was made, for the chance. It would be imposible.

[beancurdturtle]

[Ale R.U.]

[beancurdturtle]

[Ale R.U.]

[quote="beancurdturtle"]

[Ale R.U.]

[beancurdturtle]

[Ale R.U.]

[Sarraa]

A person who does not believe in God wil never understand or appreciate the feeling and beauty in it, so obviously it is hard to convince them.

But as of the existence of God, you'll find a lot of people who don't believe in Him trying to ignore the questions: 'Where did we come from?' and 'Where are we going?' when in fact these are the first questions they should be asking themselves. If we were to assume that there is such a thing as the Afterlife (which there is) and that we will all be questioned about our beliefs and deeds on that day, a non-believer can hardly say ''I didn't know.'' You did know, you just didn't bother finding out more or acting upon your knowledge.
To non-believers though, this all doesn't matter. All that matters to them is their temporary life, which is actually not that long (that is if they even manage to live till 70 or more, for all they know, they could drop dead any day). I have a question for non-believers: What is your goal in life? To be rich and famous? To build a family? To be kind and friendly and nicety-nice to others, gving and sharing and Ladida? After you have achieved this, then what? What about those who are poor and who have miserable and depressing lives, are they to live miserably, die miserably, and that's the end for them? What is the point of living? No wonder death is an awful thing for a non-beliver. And really, no wonder thousands of people out there are committing suicide, there is no purpose in life for them and well Hey, my life's gloomy I might as well kill myself.

When one believes in God though, there is hope in this world, and in the next. A believer knows there is a reward in the Hereafter after all the hardship he suffers in this world as long as he does good in this world. Therefore I believe a poor non-believer, living the life of a dog is far worse off than a poor believer.
Also, to a believer, doing good and refraining from doing bad is important because he knows he will be rewarded for his good deeds and he fears the punishment for his bad deeds in the Hereafter. What is to stop a non-believer from committing crimes though? Yes, the human nature (which God has created) naturally wants peace and doesn't always accept evil, but it is also greedy and selfish at times, so what forces a non-beliver back? Where are the limits? Their limits are set by themselves, and all humans make mistakes so how can we trust ourselves to dictate? There must be Higher Being to look up to. But to non-believers it's much easier to deny it and live their life all fine and dandy, following their temptations, without a thing to stop them except themselves.

As for who created this world, the universe, the planets, our bodies that work in fascinating ways, I won't even go there it's so obvious. Mother Nature, they say. Sigh. God Almighty help us.
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لا إلــه إلا الله مــحــمّد رســول الله

[beancurdturtle]

Sarraa, you write well, and there is great validity in your words (to a person that has faith in God). But you write from your perspective of deep faith - with ignorance regarding what gives motivation and meaning in life to those you call "non-believers" - every one of your suppositions of what is going through the minds of non-believers is incorrect from my experience.

Understanding and appreciating the feeling and beauty in faith is not a hard thing to do - after all, it's conceptual. For a believer to understand that their faith in God is a conceptual construct, with the purpose of creating a "meaning for life" - that would be difficult.

The questions "Where did we come from?" and "Where are we going?" are not ignored by non-believers. After careful examination of these questions it should be found that the answer is irrelevant. Regardless of where we came from and where we are going - we are here, right now. We have a duty to do what is right in the present. The concept of being a good person in the present to receive some reward in the afterlife is not spiritual - it is commerce, and it's motivation is greed (self gain).

I will give you my answer to your "question for non-believers: What is your goal in life?"

[Lorikeet]

Thank you for responding so eloquently, Beancurdturtle.

[ad-miral]

I don't believe in religion...
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If I say "I love you" to someone, then I also have to say "I also love everyone else inside you, I love the whole world because of you, I also love myself inside you." -- Erich Fromm, the Art of Love

[beancurdturtle]

[ad-miral]

Yeah, philosophy is a good word, we just need a way to live. Religion is also something like philosophy, or not? It gives us a view of life, but with a sculpture to be praised at, in the middle.

However the religious way of thinking is too ancient for me, I think religions need to be refreshed. We are spending away too much money for this useless thing.
_________________
If I say "I love you" to someone, then I also have to say "I also love everyone else inside you, I love the whole world because of you, I also love myself inside you." -- Erich Fromm, the Art of Love

[jvegap223]