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Diana
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA
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 Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| lioness wrote: |
If Saddam had nuclear weapons America wouldn't attack him  ( North Korea is also that Evil One and there's no volunteer to fight for starving people...). Saddam had a nuclear power station, not nuclear weapons. Well, if you put an equal sign between America, Russia and Saudi Arabia, it's your choice.
You wrote that for America the most important is its national interest. So explain me, why it is said, that American soldiers came to Iraq to bring freedom and democracy? What kind of national interest they fight for?
There were 60 hostages- is it in your opinion the reason why a democratic country should give a dictator chemical weapons, the cause of hundreds deaths? Oh, sorry, I forgot about your national interes which is the most important.
There are many monsters in this world. For example one guy who rules North Korea. I'm waiting when someone singing the song of demokracy will try to do something with him. I believe that I can wait till Judgement Day, because there's no oil there.
Bye! It was nice to argue with you- it was a very interesting experience |
Why are you waiting for someone to sing the song of democracy of North Korea? Do you see the world making a mass protest over the brutal dictatorship of Kim Jung II or even singing songs of democracy for these oppressed people? Since when do people like you even care about oppressed people in North Korea?
For over 12 years as Saddam murdered and brutalized the Iraqi people, where was the worldwide protest? Why didn't the millions of people worldwide come out and march against Saddam's brtuality? The only worldwide march I saw was against the Americans who wanted to take out Saddam for violating UN resolutions for 12 years.
I don't even see any worldwide protests over North Korea's brutal treatment of its people. Even the United Nation recognize the brtual leadership of North Korea, and I don't see them demanding Kim Jung II to step down. However, if the US decides to take out this brutal dictator, Kim Jung II, I will bet that there will be a mass protest over it.
And while you are waiting for someone to sing a song of democracy for North Korea, once again it is the Americans stationed in South Korea CONTAINING Kim Jung II just as they contained Saddam Hussein for the past 12 years. And if North Korea suddenly decides to attack South Korea or Japan, it will be the Americans soldiers stationed in South Korea and Okinawa who will pay the price with their blood.
By the way, Saddam has a nuclear facility, which was in the process of making nuclear weapons. This nuclear facility, which was provided by France, was shut down by the United Nations. What makes you think that nuclear weapons cannot kill people? Lioness, you almost sound as though you regret Saddam's downfall. Were you actually hoping that Saddam continues to be the dictator of Iraq?
And for your information, the United States also bombed Kosovo WITHOUT UN approval, and there was NO OIL in Kosovo.  |
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somuch
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| And if North Korea suddenly decides to attack South Korea or Japan, it will be the Americans soldiers stationed in South Korea and Okinawa who will pay the price with their blood. |
If North Korea attack South Korea and Japan?Why the Americans think this way?How could North Korea attack Sourth Korea and Japan first?I dont think so stupid Kim Jung II is.He know the situation of North Korea clearly.North Korea is more weaker than the U.S. even weaker than Japan,so North Korea wont attack these countries first unless he want to suicide itself.Your words are just the plead for the US troops in South Korea and Japan.  And dont talk about the democracy ,the conduct of the US is apparent broke the international law and the Geneva convention.Since then the UN was downfallen.It is a dangerous beginning. 
Remember the earth is not only belong to the US but all the lives.
Never send to know for whom the bell tolls,it tolls for thee. |
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Diana
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| somuch wrote: |
If North Korea attack South Korea and Japan?Why the Americans think this way?How could North Korea attack Sourth Korea and Japan first?I dont think so stupid Kim Jung II is.He know the situation of North Korea clearly.North Korea is more weaker than the U.S. even weaker than Japan,so North Korea wont attack these countries first unless he want to suicide itself.Your words are just the plead for the US troops in South Korea and Japan. And dont talk about the democracy ,the conduct of the US is apparent broke the international law and the Geneva convention.Since then the UN was downfallen.It is a dangerous beginning.
Remember the earth is not only belong to the US but all the lives.
Never send to know for whom the bell tolls,it tolls for thee. |
Are you telling me that you trust Kim Jung II? Do you even know what this dictator has done? Well, let me remind you.
Kim Jung II has kidnapped South Koreans and Japanese and held their children hostage. He forced their parents to spy on South Korea and Japan otherwise they would not see their children again. Now, why do you think North Korea want to spy on South Korea and Japan?
Kim Jung II broke its 1992 agreement with South Korea when they promised their brother in the south not to possess nuclear reprocessing and uranium enrichment facilities. Now, why do you think North Korea wants to possess nuclear weapons. By the way, while Kim Jung II expresses a desire to build nuclear weapons, he also expresses a desire for Korean reuninifcation. Do you honestly think that Kim Jung II wants Korean reunification under a democracy where he would easily be voted out of the election?
North Korea has tested their ballistic missiles over Japan's, causing Japanese to be angry. At the same time, Kim Jung II expressed that any ballistic missile testing over North Korea is seen as a threat. Yet, Kim Jung feels that testing his missles over Japan is OKAY!
Kim Jung II spends more money on his military than on his starving people. He makes more demands for food assistance from the US and other countries, but refuses to make any agricultural reforms.
It is obvious that Kim Jung II is a dictator who prefers to stay in power and will do what he can to achieve that. And like all dictators, he is mentally unstable. Just look at Saddam. Saddam was stupid enough to think that the US would not drive him out of Kuwait. Kim Jung II is also stupid. He is stupid enough to test balllistic missiles over Japan - a country strong enough to defeat him What does that tell you? Kim Jung II has threatened South Korea in the past simply because South Korea was conducting military exercises. He sees this as a threat despite that it is routine for all military to conduct exercises.
Personally, I feel that the Americans should withdraw all their troops from South Korea. If Kim Jung II is stupid enough to test ballistic missiles over Japan, then he can be stupid enough to start a war with South Korea. At any rate, I'm sure the South Koreans can take care of themselves and don't need America's help. All American troops should withdraw from South Korea, in my opinion.
By the way, as you can see, Saddam committed suicide when he defied President Bush. Right now and for some strange reason, North Korea is very angry at the US for withdrawing their troops. I would think Kim Jung II would be very happy to hear the good news when America said that they are withdrawing their troops from South Korea. But for some strange reason, Kim Jung II is angry about that. Hmmmm....seems to me that Kim Jung II is not in his right mind. Reminds me of Saddam. |
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jameswong
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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hi, i am james. i would like your help. please give your opinions in this title under opinions:-
Is new technology increasing the humans health condition?
thank you. |
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somuch
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| Diana wrote: |
Are you telling me that you trust Kim Jung II? Do you even know what this dictator has done? Well, let me remind you.
Kim Jung II has kidnapped South Koreans and Japanese and held their children hostage. He forced their parents to spy on South Korea and Japan otherwise they would not see their children again. Now, why do you think North Korea want to spy on South Korea and Japan?
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I never told you I trust Kim Jung II.I dont like him and Saddam either:? .
And is there something to prove the kidnappings you mentioned,you know recently most the news I've seen were about the Iraqi civilians killed during a wedding by the coalitions.
| Diana wrote: |
North Korea has tested their ballistic missiles over Japan's, causing Japanese to be angry. At the same time, Kim Jung II expressed that any ballistic missile testing over North Korea is seen as a threat. Yet, Kim Jung feels that testing his missles over Japan is OKAY!
Kim Jung II spends more money on his military than on his starving people. He makes more demands for food assistance from the US and other countries, but refuses to make any agricultural reforms.
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At least till now,North Korea has done nothing except the ballistic missiles tests,so we just define it as a potential problem.Now the bloody things are happenning in Iraq and marked with the sign --made by US.Recently the US with which signs democracy is more like an evil country.
Its troops are all over the world and they fight anywhere without admission of the UN.It sells weapons to the 3rd world for dollars.So can you explain this  ? It is really a shame! |
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Diana
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| somuch wrote: |
I never told you I trust Kim Jung II.I dont like him and Saddam either:? .
And is there something to prove the kidnappings you mentioned,you know recently most the news I've seen were about the Iraqi civilians killed during a wedding by the coalitions.
At least till now,North Korea has done nothing except the ballistic missiles tests,so we just define it as a potential problem.Now the bloody things are happenning in Iraq and marked with the sign --made by US.Recently the US with which signs democracy is more like an evil country.
Its troops are all over the world and they fight anywhere without admission of the UN.It sells weapons to the 3rd world for dollars.So can you explain this ? It is really a shame! |
I don't think the Japanese would take it very kindly when North Korea tests their ballistic missles over their country. They see it as a threat. If ballistic missiles are tested over YOUR country, I'm sure you would see it as a threat too.
As for the Iraqi people, now that Saddam is gone, there are many Iraqi people getting into the Internet and finally speaking out. Below are some of the things they have to say, which is not found in any of the newspapers you read. As you already know, the media likes to print negative things about the US troops, just as anti-American people like you have NOTHING but negative things to say about the Americans. Very rarely do the media print the other side of the story. At any rate, below are postings from some of the Iraqi people themselves and here is what they have to say about the United States. Many Iraqis are now getting into blogsites and expressing their opinions. If you ever read their blogsites, you will find that a LARGE MAJORITY of them are much happier today than when they were under Saddam. Their opinions are actually much more important than yours because they're the ones living in Iraq.
Happy reading! 
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Tuesday, May 25, 2004
I don't like to repeat myself, but I wanted to share with you some of the opinions of Iraqis about their daily lives that I read on the bbc. arabic.com There were more than many comments and about 70% of them were positive. Here are some examples:
What happens these days in Iraq is a natural process as a result from the transfer from dictatorship to democracy.
Ali Ahmed-Baghdad.
I'm an Iraqi citizen and I want to thank president GWB from all my heart for the great service he's done to the Iraqi people by freeing us from one of the worst tyrants in history. This liberation didn't suit the enemies of humanity and freedom, thus we see them committing terrorist acts claiming to resist occupation by killing their own people, but that will not affect the Iraqis lust for freedom. Thanks again GWB.
Kamal-Adhamya-Baghdad.
I won't forget the day when I saw one of Saddam's tanks crushing the heads of 40 She'at Iraqis who were among others arrested for no obvious reason in 1991. Their hands were tied and put on the street for the tank to pass over their heads. The words" No She'at after today" where written on that tank.
I was one of those people. My hands were tied to the back and a grenade was put between them and the safety pin removed. It was positioned in a way that it should explode if I was to make any move, and I was left a lone in a deserted area that was at least 5 Km. from any life. If it wasn't for the kindness of one of the soldiers who came back and rescued me, I would've certainly died soon.
Ihsan Al-Shimmari-Sweeden.
We lived our worst years under Saddam regime, a regime that many Arabs still believe in!We don't know why don't they leave us in peace, especially the Arab media that turns liberation into occupation and criminals into resistant. We, Iraqis, know the truth very well. The situation is much better now for the vast majority of Iraqis. Most of the people are government employees who used to get paid 4 or 6 thousand Iraqi dinars. Now the lowest salary is 100 thousand Iraqi Dinar. We feel free and we don't fear prisons and torture. The Arab media, as expected, made a huge fuss about the prisoners abuse in Abu-Gharib. Shame on them. Where were they when Saddam put explosives around a bunch of young men and blasted their bodies and they all saw that on TV? Where were they?
Saman-Iraq.
I had to leave Iraq because I didn't want to be one of Saddam's slaves. After so many years, I'm back to my country and I saw that people are not as nervous as they used to be. I saw hope in their eyes despite the security problems. All I have to say to our Arab brothers is,"We are practicing democracy. You keep enjoying dictatorship"
Ilham Hussain-Baghdad.
I'm from an area not so far from Shat Al-Arab, still at Saddam's time we never had clean water supply. Now the situation is better and the British are very gentle and kind. I no longer fear for my life or my family's. The only problems we have are the thieves and some shortage in power supply.
Kadim Jabbar-Al-Zubair-Basra.
The daily life in Basra is not that different from other parts of Iraq; It's very hot, the water and power supply are not Continueous, still I prefer to live a year in these conditions than one hour like those we lived under Saddam.
Abbas Mahir Tahir-Basra.
- posted by Omar @ 22:20
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
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Now that you've read some of the opinions of the Iraqis, below are two posts written by two Iraqis living in Bagdad. One was posted by an Iraqi named Omar on November 17, 2003, and the other post was written by an Iraqi named Ali on March 21, 2004. This is what they have to say about people like you who pretend to care about oppressed people. Happy reading! 
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Monday, November 17, 2003
YOU OWE US AN APOLOGY
I don�t know really know why Saddam�s regime lasted for over three decades, but I am sure as an Iraqi who survived that period that there�re no legal or moral justifications
for it to remain.
I was counting days and hours waiting to see an end to that regime, just like all those who suffered the cruelty of that brutal regime.
It�s been really a disgrace chasing the world ,the world of the 21st. century, reminding it how incapable it was to aid the oppressed and to sue those who dispised all the
values of humanity.
Through out these decades I lost trust in the world governments and international committees.
Terms like (human rights, democracy and liberty..etc.)became hallow and meaningless and those who keep repeating these words are liars..liars..liars.
I hated the U.N and the security council and Russia and France and Germany and the arab nations and the islamic conference.
I�ve hated George Gallawy and all those marched in the millionic demonstrations against the war .It is I who was oppressed and I don�t want any one to talk on behalf of me,
I, who was eager to see rockets falling on Saddam�s nest to set me free, and it is I who desired to die gentlemen, because it�s more merciful than humiliation as it puts an end
to my suffer, while humiliation lives with me reminding me every moment that I couldn�t defend myself against those who ill-treated me.
What hurt me more and kept my wound bleeding was that they gave Saddam a tribune so the skinner can talk, and offered him a diplomatic representation almost all-over the world to broadcast his filthy propaganda and sprinkle Iraq�s wealth on his supporters.
I really didn�t understand those countries demands to take away our misery. Did they really think that the sanctions were the cause?
We were not even human, Saddam wiped off our humanity , we were just numbers and a lot of Identity cards that we had to show wherever we went.
The Baath idea was this:
YOU�RE A CITIZEN , THEN YOU�RE A SUSPECT
Believe me , we were living in the� kingdom of horror�.
Please tell me how could the world that claims to be civilized let Saddam launch chemical weapons on his own un-armed people?
Shame..
Can anyone tell me why the world let Saddam remain and stood against America�s will to topple him?
Till when will the charts of human rights remain incompulsory , cancel them, because they remind you of your big disgrace.
Keep giving time and tribunes to regimes like those in Syria, Yemen, North Korea and Libya to justify their presence.
To me I don�t recognize your committees and I have no time to listen to that nonsense, I�ve got along way to walk building my country and helping my people forget the days of abasement.
You all owe the Iraqi people an apology.
What happened in Iraq was worse than the holocaust.
- posted by Omar @ 19:18
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
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Sunday, March 21, 2004
A stupid question.
When I saw the anti-war rallies that took place in many parts of the world in the annual anniversary of the war against Saddam, I couldn�t help thinking again, why are they doing this!? There were some but considerably smaller one or two demos. In Iraq (few hundreds led by some religious fanatics who no one could've known about them if it wasn't for the watchful eyes of the media) which was supposed to be the country those pacifist were defending.
I�ve had some difficulty in understanding the motives of the pacifists to stop this war and now to stop the coalition led by the USA from helping, rebuilding and promoting democracy in Iraq, and I�m sure there were many of those who were paid off or simply misled, but that doesn�t cover even the majority of the pacifist, as I�ve always thought that those were good people with a great sense of humanity and were noble enough to dismiss bribery and more intelligent than can be misled.
The answer to this question became less obscure as time and events revealed much of what was difficult for me to perceive from my place at the first look. The way the majority of the pacifists reacted to those events showed some of the missing part of the picture. I still think they are good people and not stupid at all but there�s one thing I can�t give them a credit for and that is honesty. I�m sorry, my friends but this may have been considered the strongest point in your position, or so you thought, but if you allow me to navigate through your conscience and care to have the patience and modesty to join me in this journey-which is what should be expected from honest people- then maybe we can reach an agreement on re-stating our points of disagreement and define more accurately were we disagree and this, as I believe, should be for the benefit of all. There�s no need to add that you have the right to do the same with me and I�m more than willing to go with you all the way.
Now why would I judge you so harshly and what facts and evidences do I have to support my belief?
To start with, I think I, as everyone else agree with you that war is a very unpleasant and most often a disastrous option to solve struggles, but I think we also agree that sometimes it�s the only available option. This allows us to minimize the field of our debate to this war on Saddam and to some others maybe to the way in dealing with terrorism that we support so strongly and you appose similarly. I think that once 2 nations went to war to settle their conflict instead of resorting to diplomacy, we would both stand against this war; unless you believe that the majority of us support this war to satisfy our lust for blood shed.
Since we are now talking about your stance, let�s take a look at why do you (the true pacifists) oppose this war.
I think that most agree that when we talk about the (true pacifists) then we are pointing to those living in the free world, as the 3rd world people are either disinterested and busy in trying to feed their children and find an appropriate shelter for their families, while they struggle to stay as far as possible away from the tyrannies that control their fate, which may force them to follow their governments attitude, or they are driven by religious fanaticism, and in the Arab world probably by Arab nationalism to stand against this war.
Peace is what those (true pacifists) are struggling for and there can be no nobler goal than this, but may I ask one questions here?
Where do you live!? A stupid and irrelevant question? I don�t think so.
Which peace are you seeking? Yours or that of the world, and which order you are trying to maintain? That of your countries or of the whole world? Do you really think that it�s such a wonderful and peaceful world that no one should be allowed to mess with? But what a stupid question is that on my part!! Of course it is! I mean some of you probably hadn�t heard a gun shot in months or years, and some of you live in countries that haven�t fought any war in more than a century.
Your lives certainly have not been that easy for sure, but did you ever fear that your children might starve to death? Or did you live your life with the horror of a kick that break your doors open, in the middle of the night, to take you or one of your family members to the unknown? And worse than that- which seems to you not a big deal- did you have to bend your heads and fix your eyes to the ground and never raise it fearing it may meet those of a security guard and get misinterpreted as a challenge!!? Oh my God! Here I go asking stupid questions again! As of course all of this is not a big deal, because if you felt it is such a huge injustice and a humiliation to the sacred soul inside each one of God�s creatures, not to mention human beings, you wouldn�t wait SO patiently for the sanctions to work and for the inspectors to finish their job. Of course it�s not a big deal, and you know why? Simply because it didn�t happen to YOU. It happened to the others who lived so far away that it made it less real for you and you simply could throw all these behind you when you come to discuss the war, and ONLY now, you are suddenly worried about how the Americans are treating us!!? I have one thing to answer that: the Americans don�t 'treat' us; they help, protect, teach, love and make friends with us. Hard to swallow for you, I know, because it makes you look so bad to yourselves, but that�s not as bad as it seems since we all make mistakes and HUGE ones and it�s never too late to admit that we were wrong.
Am I so stupid and naive to expect you to change your minds? No, because I still believe that you are good people and I�m relying on this when I say that I have hope in you and will never look to you as enemies.
Just think again about all the pain and sufferings in this world and this time imagine yourself picking the bones of your sons, daughters or brothers from a mass grave after loosing their track in a dark night 20 or 30 years ago and knowing that they didn�t even die peacefully, NO, they were tortured, raped and treated like animals and forced to beg for mercy to have it as a bullet in the head. This happened, and not only in Iraq and is still happening elsewhere in this �wonderful� world. Think of that and try telling my neighbor- for instance, who is still looking for the mass grave that hold his 2 sons� bones who were taken away from him 21 years ago when they were still in college without even knowing why-why you stood against this war. Try telling that to my other neighbor, who convinced his brother, who left the military during Iran war, to go back to his unite taking advantage of the presidential pardon that was announced on the TV and formal newspaper, and when he finally convinced him and took him by himself to the military police to take him to his unite, he woke up the next morning to find a car carrying the coffin that had his brother's body inside it, with the word TRAITOR written in large letters on its top, and with a strict order that no funeral should be held, otherwise they would join their brother. And yes, he received a note 2 weeks later telling him that there was a mistake that led to the execution of his brother along with other few hundreds and that they were sorry and that he can have his funeral!!
I could talk for years, and there are MUCH more painful stories but my heart cannot take it to remember all this pain. I hope you have a stronger heart as you explain to those people that you stood against their salvation and allowed their misery to continue because you think your politicians lied to you about the reasons for this war. Try to tell them that this was the doing of America not Saddam and that�s why you stood against her when she tried to remove him and give them freedom AND peace, the peace of mind and heart!!
Again my stupid question: where do you live? As we, who support this war against dictatorship and terrorism, live in this world, this ugly world we are trying to change as persistently as you try to keep it as it is with the same strength and persistence. So� where do you live?
-By Ali.
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_iraqthemodel_archive.html |
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somuch
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Diana wrote: |
I don't think the Japanese would take it very kindly when North Korea tests their ballistic missles over their country.
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So you do think the Iraqi people would take it very kindly when US invaded their country. 
| Diana wrote: |
They see it as a threat. If ballistic missiles are tested over YOUR country, I'm sure you would see it as a threat too.
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A threat,anyway, a threat is much better than to invade.As we cant judge someone before he/she commits a crime.Actually the US army is stay by my country and I think that is the really threat.
| Diana wrote: |
As for the Iraqi people, now that Saddam is gone, there are many Iraqi people getting into the Internet and finally speaking out. Below are some of the things they have to say, which is not found in any of the newspapers you read. As you already know, the media likes to print negative things about the US troops, just as anti-American people like you have NOTHING but negative things to say about the Americans. Very rarely do the media print the other side of the story. At any rate, below are postings from some of the Iraqi people themselves and here is what they have to say about the United States. Many Iraqis are now getting into blogsites and expressing their opinions. If you ever read their blogsites, you will find that a LARGE MAJORITY of them are much happier today than when they were under Saddam. Their opinions are actually much more important than yours because they're the ones living in Iraq.
Happy reading! ......
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I am really glad to see Saddam is gone
But I doubt the authenticity of your source.As you know,we do not know if the guy who named Ali or any other people do exist.It may be somebody wrote without source just like you who support the war in Iraq. Try to put yourself in their mind,I dont think they really so happy like this,the insurgence has explained anything. If the Iraqi people really appreciate the US troops ,why they fight them? 
BTW:how do you think about 'Fahrenheit 911'?The Bush family and the Saddam family and Bin Laden family?It must be funny . |
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Diana
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| somuch wrote: |
I am really glad to see Saddam is gone
But I doubt the authenticity of your source.As you know,we do not know if the guy who named Ali or any other people do exist.It may be somebody wrote without source just like you who support the war in Iraq. Try to put yourself in their mind,I dont think they really so happy like this,the insurgence has explained anything. If the Iraqi people really appreciate the US troops ,why they fight them?
BTW:how do you think about 'Fahrenheit 911'?The Bush family and the Saddam family and Bin Laden family?It must be funny . |
Well, Somuch, if you had REALLY CARED ENOUGH to do your research and find out whether or not these Iraqi blogsites are true or not, you would have known that they are true Iraqis. There are a few news report that told about these blogsites in the media. The blogsite that I provided you is operated by an Iraqi named Omar Fadhil who lives in Bagdad. Below is one of the few media who was able to pick up on the Iraqi blogsites.
By the way, a MAJORITY of the Iraqi people support the US troops. The ones you see reported in the news fighting the US troops are actually the FEW who supported Saddam, Bin Laden's Al-Queda, and foreign fighters from other Arab countries. Haven't you noticed that Al-Queda is also killing the Iraqi people and not just US troops?
At any rate, below is what one of the few news media say about the Iraqi blogsites, which you NEVER EVEN CARED to find out for yourself whether they are true sources or not! There are about 30 Iraqi blogsites, and the Iraqis have been getting into the Internet telling about their life in Iraq and offering their viewpoints to the world. If you had read their blogsites, you will find that MOST of them are much more happier than when they were under Saddam. But then again, what do you care? You never even bothered to find out on your own whether my sources were true or not. Below is a news report telling about these blogsites:
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Iraqis enjoy new freedom of expression on Web journals
By C�sar G. Soriano, USA TODAY
BAGHDAD � A year ago, few Iraqis had ever had access to a computer, much less used it to communicate to the outside world.
Now, Internet cafes seemingly dot every block in Baghdad, and new ones open often. That has led to a new phenomenon here: bloggers.
"We suffered for years under Saddam Hussein, not being able to speak out," says Omar Fadhil, 24, a dentist. "Now, you can make your voice heard around the world."
Hence, the blog. Short for "web log," a blog is a diary or journal posted on the Internet for all the world to read. E-mails can be sent to the blog, so it's also interactive.
Salam Pax's blog made him something of an international celebrity. Pax, the pseudonym of an Iraqi architect and translator, launched his blog in June 2002 as a way to correspond with his friend Raed Jarrar in Amman. What started as an e-mail exchange became one of the most gripping war diaries of the Internet age. Pax's journal describes the emotional pain caused by the U.S. military's attack on Baghdad a year ago.
His blog, dear_raed.blogspot.com, has been published as a book, Salam Pax: The Clandestine Diary of an Ordinary Iraqi. Pax, whose blog is among the most visited Iraqi sites, could not be reached for comment.
Fadhil's blog, iraqthemodel.blogspot.com, tells of his life and the lives of his two brothers. One brother also is a dentist, and the other is a pediatrician. "We wanted to help bridge the gap, not just between the U.S. and Iraq, but with the entire Islamic world," says Ali Fadhil, 34, the pediatrician. "The media is always taking a look at the bad stuff. We want to show the good progress in Iraq."
The brothers' blog is written with an unusually pro-American viewpoint, especially coming from three Sunni Muslims. Sunnis � among them, Saddam Hussein � dominated Iraq's majority Shiite Muslim population before the war.
"We get threatening e-mails from Palestinians and Arab-Americans who write, 'You are traitors. If I were in Iraq, I would shoot you,' " Ali says. Other e-mails accuse the brothers of being CIA agents who are writing from Washington, "as if the CIA didn't have anything better to do than run a blog," he says.
"My ideas are very shocking to people," Ali says. "I tell people I am a friend of America, a friend of Israel. Some of my colleagues at the hospital think I am an infidel. It's impossible to change a man's mind, but you can only make him consider other alternatives."
The brothers write their blog at the Twin Towers Internet Cafe, named after the Petronas Towers in Malaysia. On a recent day, all 10 computer stations were occupied at the cafe, where Internet time is 1,500 Iraqi dinars an hour (about $1). That's pricey in Iraq, where the average salary for a doctor is about $150 a month, up from $20 under Saddam's regime.
"People are enjoying their newfound freedoms," says Ali Wathak, 35, owner of the cafe. "It's a civilized country. We need to get connected to the world."
Like many bloggers, the Fadhil brothers' site solicits donations to help make ends meet. They've received more than $1,000, most of it from Americans. The money is wired to Kuwait, where friends pick it up. The Fadhils' site gets about 3,300 visitors and a few dozen e-mails a day.
Maintaining the blog "is really a 24-hour job," Omar says. "When I'm not blogging, I'm thinking about what to blog. I'm watching the news, discussing topics. It's become part of our life."
There are about 30 Iraqi bloggers in Baghdad, plus a few other blogs written by Iraqis abroad. Not all share the Fadhil brothers' optimism. "You have your Fox TV. I am offering a counter response," says Faisa Jarrar, whose blog is critical of the U.S. occupation. Her mixed Sunni-Shiite family began in December with a joint blog, afamilyinbaghdad.blogspot.com. Now, each of Jarrar's three sons has his own blog. Raed, 26, Jarrar's eldest, is studying in Jordan. Khalid, 21, and Majid, 17, are in Baghdad.
"All of our efforts are more individual efforts, but we have one common goal, to show the world what is really going on," Majid says.
Faisa Jarrar, a 40-something engineer and a Shiite, has maintained the family blog. She works on a PC in her home in western Baghdad. She has criticized what she sees as heavy-handed tactics by U.S. forces in parts of Baghdad and especially in Fallujah, where hundreds of Iraqis and dozens of Marines recently were killed in a two-week uprising.
"Dear Raed," she wrote to her son April 7. "Americans are gathering near the entrance of our neighborhood. Tanks and soldiers with machine guns. They look terrifying. ... We will spend the night in the 'safe room,' the one we used to hide in last year during the war. ... Only god can protect us from what's happening. These days are much darker than the days of Saddam Hussein."
Jarrar's site gets about 2,500 hits and about 50 e-mails a day. Most are supportive. "I get some hostile e-mails," she says. "I tell them to go look for other blogs that share their vision. ... I want to share with others our lives, our hopes. We are keeping in touch and making the world a small village."
She also has been corresponding with an American woman whose son is stationed in Baghdad. "We share the same feelings," she says. "Mothers are the same all over the world. I feel sad when a U.S. soldier is killed or injured, as if he was my own son or brother."
Back at the Twin Towers cafe, the Fadhil brothers are pecking away at the keyboard, reading volumes of e-mail. Some of the messages are hostile, even threatening. A German reader, who Ali says is "anti-everything," would like to kill the Fadhils for their pro-American comments. Ali clicks a few buttons to block the offender from his site.
The brothers say they won't bow to the high-tech threats. They say their postwar access to the Internet has been a form of liberation. "I am not afraid," Ali says. "I was afraid all my life. I will not go back to living in fear."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-20-bloggers_x.htm |
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somuch
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Diana wrote: |
Well, Somuch, if you had REALLY CARED ENOUGH to do your research and find out whether or not these Iraqi blogsites are true or not, you would have known that they are true Iraqis. There are a few news report that told about these blogsites in the media. The blogsite that I provided you is operated by an Iraqi named Omar Fadhil who lives in Bagdad. Below is one of the few media who was able to pick up on the Iraqi blogsites.
By the way, a MAJORITY of the Iraqi people support the US troops. The ones you see reported in the news fighting the US troops are actually the FEW who supported Saddam, Bin Laden's Al-Queda, and foreign fighters from other Arab countries. Haven't you noticed that Al-Queda is also killing the Iraqi people and not just US troops?
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haha,why are you so naive ?
As you know the US troops are occupying Iraq now.So actually the US government is governing the Iraqi people now.It is so easily to find someone,and force him to do so.I think the US soldiers are good at it  .Maybe Javal Davis handles this,or Frederick ?
I think the al-qeada and Bin laden are disgusting too.
But the al-qeada is not the only armed forces fight in Iraq.How do you explain there are so many Shiite and Sunni insurgents?Why do they fight the US troops which treat the Iraqi people as kindly as you say ?So tell me why.
And you are still not tell me how do you think about 'Fahrenheit 911'.
I think that's why the war turn on. |
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Diana
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| somuch wrote: |
haha,why are you so naive ?
As you know the US troops are occupying Iraq now.So actually the US government is governing the Iraqi people now.It is so easily to find someone,and force him to do so.I think the US soldiers are good at it .Maybe Javal Davis handles this,or Frederick ?
I think the al-qeada and Bin laden are disgusting too.
But the al-qeada is not the only armed forces fight in Iraq.How do you explain there are so many Shiite and Sunni insurgents?Why do they fight the US troops which treat the Iraqi people as kindly as you say ?So tell me why.
And you are still not tell me how do you think about 'Fahrenheit 911'.
I think that's why the war turn on. |
I guess you didn't read my last post. You asked how do I explain why there are so many Shi'ite and Sunni insurgents? Somuch, the TRUTH is there isn't so many Shi'ite and Sunni insurgents. The media likes to make it look like there is.
I'm not surprised that you think that the Iraqis speaking out are nothing but puppets. I've seen your kind of attitude before. People forget that when Saddam was in power, none of the Iraqis were on the Internet, expressing their own opinions. Now, with the US there, they have freedom of expression. And when these people finally do express how they feel, what does the world say? They say that they were forced by the US to say things. It also goes to show that you didn't even bother to read the news article I posted. If you had, you would have realized that the news article pointed out that there are also SOME IRAQIS (such as Salam Pax) who CRITICIZED the US. If these Iraqis are truly puppets of the US, then why are some Iraqis on the blogsites criticizing the US? These Iraqis are now free to get on the Internet and tell the world how life is like for them and express their viewpoints as well as criticize the US and anyone else. This is what you call "Freedom of Speech." In other words, democracy - something which Saddam never gave his people. Now, thanks to the US, the Iraqi people are now able to voice their own opinions on the Internet and even criticize the Americans as they see fit.
And as I said before, the opinions of these people are much more important than yours because they are the ones living in Iraq. And so far, MOST of them have expressed that life is much better today than living under Saddam.
Furthermore, what do you want to know about Fahrenheit 911? Everyone already knows that Bin Laden and Al-Queda attacked America. As a result, America is now going after EVERY terrorists and those who supports them including Saddam Hussein who also hired and supported international terrorism. To defeat terrorism is to cut off all their finances and their refuge or safe haven and to bring democracy to the heart of the Middle East so that the people there would live better lives.
Terrorists like Bin Laden, on the other hand, prefer to keep people in misery. Why? Because as long as people are in misery, Bin Laden can use their misery into brainwashing them into hating America and therefore recruit them into his army. By the way, Bin Laden has also killed muslims he considers his enemy. |
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somuch
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| Diana wrote: |
I guess you didn't read my last post. You asked how do I explain why there are so many Shi'ite and Sunni insurgents? Somuch, the TRUTH is there isn't so many Shi'ite and Sunni insurgents. The media likes to make it look like there is... ...Terrorists like Bin Laden, on the other hand, prefer to keep people in misery. Why? Because as long as people are in misery, Bin Laden can use their misery into brainwashing them into hating America and therefore recruit them into his army. By the way, Bin Laden has also killed muslims he considers his enemy.
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Okey,let me repeat what I told you.I don't believe the 'truth' of the Iraqi people told by the guys who hide themselves behind internet.And I have already told you it was because there may be someone support the war as you wrote it but the real Iraqi people.We can't identify if it is the truth.The truth is not out there.  Now I just believe the sources from newspaper and television with video on.It is much better than something a guy told you from internet.I'm not clear that where your 'truth' comes from if you don't trust the media. 
'Fahrenheit 911' is a documentary critical of Bush's links to the family of al Qaeda's leader Bin Laden.It will be banned forcedly in America. Why the US government turns like this. Al-Qaeda is evil,so why Bush' kept the relationship with Bin Laden.what is hided in the relationship.
KIDDING  If Bin Laden just an employee of the US government,there will be another explanation of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq.......... |
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Diana
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| somuch wrote: |
Okey,let me repeat what I told you.I don't believe the 'truth' of the Iraqi people told by the guys who hide themselves behind internet.And I have already told you it was because there may be someone support the war as you wrote it but the real Iraqi people.We can't identify if it is the truth.The truth is not out there. Now I just believe the sources from newspaper and television with video on.It is much better than something a guy told you from internet.I'm not clear that where your 'truth' comes from if you don't trust the media.
'Fahrenheit 911' is a documentary critical of Bush's links to the family of al Qaeda's leader Bin Laden.It will be banned forcedly in America. Why the US government turns like this. Al-Qaeda is evil,so why Bush' kept the relationship with Bin Laden.what is hided in the relationship.
KIDDING If Bin Laden just an employee of the US government,there will be another explanation of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq.......... |
And I already showed you a news article where Omar Fahdel was interviewed. And if you had bothered and cared to spend some time looking through Omar's blogsite as well as the other Iraqi blogsites, they show you pictures of Bagdad and Omar along with his two brothers Ali and Mohammed.
Bin Laden is an employee of the US government, huh? Somuch, use common sense thinking. Bin Laden is a billionaire. Why would he work for the US government? Exactly how much was the US government paying this billionaire who was born rich? If you were a billionaire, would you work for someone who would pay you LESS money? Bin Laden has never even been to the United States. Furthermore, what relationship could Bin Laden have with Bush or America when Bin Laden hates all Christians and Jews? He views all Christians and Jews "infidels." The reason the documentary is banned is because it is not true. |
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somuch
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| Diana wrote: |
And I already showed you a news article where Omar Fahdel was interviewed. And if you had bothered and cared to look through Omar's blogsite (as well as the other blogsites), they show you pictures of Bagdad and Omar along with his two brothers Ali and Mohammed.
Bin Laden is an employee of the US government, huh? Somuch, use common sense thinking. Bin Laden is a billionaire. Why would he work for the US government? Exactly how much was the US government paying this billionaire who was born rich? If you were a billionaire, would you work for someone who would pay you LESS money? Bin Laden has never even been to the United States. Furthermore, what relationship could Bin Laden have with Bush or America when Bin Laden hates all Christians and Jews? He considers all Christians and Jews infidels. The reason the documentary is banned is because it is not true.
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You told me don't believe the media ,how do you get the 'truth'?
I wrote so clearly,I was KIDDING.
 BTW:base on the kidding,if al-qeada is dummy,I consider resume of Bin Laden and his family maybe dummy too.The US government has the ability to create all the glosses.
If Bin Laden is a billionaire exactly,well ,there is few people in the same situation as him.So how can you image what a billionaire want?Money can't make him exciting.It is very hard to understand the rich guy.If you are Bin Laden,what are you go on doing? |
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Diana
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Guam, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| somuch wrote: |
You told me don't believe the media ,how do you get the 'truth'?
I wrote so clearly,I was KIDDING.
BTW:base on the kidding,if al-qeada is dummy,I consider resume of Bin Laden and his family maybe dummy too.The US government has the ability to create all the glosses.
If Bin Laden is a billionaire exactly,well ,there is few people in the same situation as him.So how can you image what a billionaire want?Money can't make him exciting.It is very hard to understand the rich guy.If you are Bin Laden,what are you go on doing? |
I never said "don't believe the media." I said, "Do your research." Most media tends to tell only one side of the story, which is basically the negative side. There is a good side too, and that is what we also need to look at for a more balanced view.
As for Bin Laden, do a research on him, and then you will know what he wants. Bin Laden wrote letters and made speeches. The answer to what he really wants is found in his own words or speeches. Do your own research on him and al-Queda. |
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somuch
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Diana wrote: |
Most media tends to tell only one side of the story, which is basically the negative side. There is a good side too, and that is what we also need to look at for a more balanced view.
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uh,so that means you accept the negative side do exists.
| Diana wrote: |
As for Bin Laden, do a research on him, and then you will know what he wants. Bin Laden wrote letters and made speeches. The answer to what he really wants is found in his own words or speeches. Do your own research on him and al-Queda.
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Base on my supposition,yours words above dont stand up.In my supposition,all of that could be created by the US intelligence.The purpose in doing that is make the distribution of global profits tends to the US.So far,it is successful.The US troops stay in Afghanistan--the military important place,now the US occupies Iraq and go on controls the crude oil of Iraq.Bin Laden has taken so much profits to the US. You should appreciate the devil |
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