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BrE/AmE Differences B
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Itasan



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 557
Location: Yokohama, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:00 am    Post subject: Thank you. Reply with quote

Thank you very much.
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tigertiger



Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bags

Unless preceded by 'Oxford' I would not make the connection with troos.
I am 46 and my dad spoke of wearing Oxford bags, and they were revived by the 'Northern Soulies' (Wigan Casino) in the early 70's. I do not know if a younger person would know what they are. Oxford bags are no longer the fashion.
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tigertiger



Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itasan

Sorry everytime I write back my mind says 'I Satan' Embarassed

Back countryIf you tell us the AmE or OzE definition you may get a respnse fo BrE equivalent.
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tigertiger



Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back hoe

BrE, the term JCB is also used. JCB is a manufacturer, a brand as such.

Other brands that have lost their identity include
Hoover, which is used as a generic term for a vacuum cleaner in BrE.
Windsurfer TM, which is a brand of sailboard.
I believe Bulldozer may also be a brand, but could be wrong.

In UK if you go to most pubs, restaurants, and ask for a coke you could get any brand of cola.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 3011
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah right, JCB...I knew there was something that I'd missed, but I couldn't for the life of me remember what it was!
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Itasan



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 557
Location: Yokohama, Japan

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:37 am    Post subject: back country Reply with quote

tigertiger wrote:
Itasan

Sorry everytime I write back my mind says 'I Satan' Embarassed

Back countryIf you tell us the AmE or OzE definition you may get a respnse fo BrE equivalent.


1. Tigertiger, no problem. I might be the Big Satan I. LOL
2. back country: LDCE; 1. espectially AusE a country area where few people live 2. AmE an area, especially in the mountains, away from roads and towns

I have lots of English dictionaries, published in UK, US, Can, Aus, Japan, etc., but the first-hand information from living NESs is really really valuable to me. In the above case, for example, the dictionary states AusE and AmE, but does not give the British equivalents. Anyway, I will try not to bother you all with unnecessary questions, but every single answer from you NESs is invaluable. Not that I don't trust dictionaries but that I'd like to see the current living usage by the peoples who daily use English. Thank you very much.
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tigertiger



Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back Country

BrE, social geography equivalent would be 'rural' or 'remote rural'. "Rockhampton is a small village in a remote-rural area of Gloucestershire".
Similar term, but specific to hill farming areas would be 'upland farm areas' 'upland farms/farmers/farming communities/areas'. Here upland relates to the geography, but cannot be seperated from the economy (usually depressed).

BrE - vernacular would be a remote area or just remote, "he lives in a remote area" "it is a bit/very remote"
Back-water. "The village is a quiet backwater, away from the (hustle) bustle of the town"
Bustle, or Hustle bustle, - roughly meaning noisy/busy movement/activity. "She was bustling along"

BrE slang - out in the sticks - expression "he lives out in the sticks', less polite would be 'bumpkin country'. In SW England 'carrot cruncher country'.
Bumpkin - a simple country person/farm worker, assumed to be of low intelligence or of low education (prejudice). Carrot cruncher - a bumpkin.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 3011
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tigertiger wrote:
If you tell us the AmE or OzE definition you may get a respnse fo BrE equivalent.


You can access the Cambridge, Longman and Oxford advanced level learner dictionaries yourself:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/
http://www.ldoceonline.com/
http://www.oup.com/elt/catalogue/teachersites/oald7/?cc=global

The Cambridge link is very useful because you also have access to a whole range of their more specialised dictionaries, and can post links to specific search results (subsections of a potentially quite long entry) as a URL (useful for Dave's, or for directing students perhaps), but I generally prefer to use the Longman first and then the Oxford for more detailed analyses beyond checking spelling etc (initial access is fastest to the Cambridge, followed by the Oxford and then finally the Longman, but the Oxford falls away in the race thereafter due to it not having any jump/link functionality; you can click on any word in the Cambridge or Longman and are then given the relevant entry. Longman is slower because it opens as a pop-up, but that means you can see previous query in the window behind it rather than needing to use Back button, so it's swings and roundabouts really...Longman is certainly useful for comparing related words at the same time!).

If you have a friend who owns the Macmillan, you could give them a call or ask to borrow it and that way complete the 5 questions you'll be asked to certify you have bought a copy (e.g. Q1: What is the fifth word of the third entry on page 523?); you'll then be given details of how to access the online dictionary (password etc linked to your email address). It's a very good dictionary, and using the online version is maybe easier than working with the CD-ROM (which will always need to be in the drive after the copyguard stuff kicks in beyond 30 days, it seems).

You can read more about these learner dictionaries in the Bilingual Education forum's sticky thread.

As TT helpfully went on to suggest, 'back country' probably means something like 'a bit (of a) remote (area)' or '(a) very remote (area)', but then, the problem with all such general definitions is that they are bound to be replaced in conversation with more specific/definite referents ('Ooh arr, he lives up in them there mountains, just follow the Blood-splattered Path, hahahahaha!').

Anyway, it would really help if the dictionary (especially in CD-ROM format, where space isn't as limited as on paper) supplied actual examples to show how the phrase is used e.g if it is a prenominal and/or postverbal modifier. I'm guessing that ultimately there could be a close correspondence between 'a remote rural town' and 'a back country town' (compared to: 'It's very rural/remote/*remote rural', versus '?It's very back country' (that might be in need of a hyphen?)).
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Itasan



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 557
Location: Yokohama, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:23 pm    Post subject: dictionary information Reply with quote

[quote="fluffyhamster"]
tigertiger wrote:
If you tell us the AmE or OzE definition you may get a respnse fo BrE equivalent.


Thank you very much for the long passage. I very much appreciate the time and effort. As I said earlier, I have lots of dictionaries, both in paper and CD-ROM forms. I also have means to access on-line dictionaries. I do my search in my own way. Thank you very much, but you don't need to bother giving me dictionary informtion.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 3011
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: dictionary information Reply with quote

[quote="Itasan"]
fluffyhamster wrote:
tigertiger wrote:
If you tell us the AmE or OzE definition you may get a respnse fo BrE equivalent.


Thank you very much for the long passage. I very much appreciate the time and effort. As I said earlier, I have lots of dictionaries, both in paper and CD-ROM forms. I also have means to access on-line dictionaries. I do my search in my own way. Thank you very much, but you don't need to bother giving me dictionary informtion.


I was addressing tigertiger and making him aware of where HE could find information (definitions, possibly examples) similar or identical to the ones you obviously already have access to, Itasan (that is, I was a bit surprised that TT didn't seem to have access to any dictionaries...or perhaps wasn't clear about which one(s) you were mainly using...you seem to favour the Longman! Good choice!).

I appreciate that you are wanting information from native speakers that isn't always clear to you (or simply not to be found) in the dictionaries you're consulting, rather than to be told about where to find dictionaries or what is in them (although I still think it is sometimes necessary to point out whatever information to you if you seem to have overlooked the obvious in a definition).
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 26 Oct 2004
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Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tigertiger wrote:
Bags

Unless preceded by 'Oxford' I would not make the connection with troos.
I am 46 and my dad spoke of wearing Oxford bags, and they were revived by the 'Northern Soulies' (Wigan Casino) in the early 70's. I do not know if a younger person would know what they are. Oxford bags are no longer the fashion.


Lexicographers are therefore a generation or more removed from the younger users of their products, and are probably including a lot of information that is of questionable value (unless one happens to run across the phrase 'Oxford bags' and can't work out what it means from the context. Presumably corpuses are chocka with examples culled from favoured sources, and everything I've ever read has just not been the "right" kind of material!).

I'm not saying that older or antiquated words shouldn't appear in a dictionary (students studying Englisj Lit, for example, might well expect to find such words in their dictionary), but some of the words that are included will be a mystery to my generation (I'm 34, not 46) and even moreso to foreign learners, and the fact that the word has been included will raise questions in some learner's minds about its relevance (despite usage labels, indications of (in)frequency etc).

Basically, in a dictionary, maybe, but in a course, no.
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Itasan



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 557
Location: Yokohama, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:03 am    Post subject: dictionary definition Reply with quote

I totally agree with you, tigertiger. What is of great value to me is what a word or phrase or sentence means to an actually living particular native speaker of English and how he/she actually uses them. I wonder if everyone looks up all the dictionaries before posting a question.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 3011
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itasan, my name's fluffyhamster (actually, it's Duncan, but never mind). Tigertiger hasn't made a post for a while now, so how could you be referring to him (unless there's a point he made to you that you'd yet to pick up on which I haven't spotted).

TT has pretty good intuitions it seems (better than mine I think!), but I still don't know if he owns any dictionaries. Maybe he can get by fine without one. Laughing Cool Razz

As for myself, I do check dictionaries quite a lot, but that's never stopped me from posting potentially silly questions. Twisted Evil
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tigertiger



Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never stopped me from posting potentially silly answers Embarassed Laughing

But if I have to look up words/terms like back country, before I respond, it requires more effort on my part.
So responding to Itasan would be less 'value for time' than before.
Time is something we all have less of. Sad

But thanks for the links Fluffy, they are of value to me.
I never thanked you for your response to the other tread, big thanks for that too
Very Happy

TT
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 26 Oct 2004
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Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome, Mr Hobbestiger. Very Happy
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