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Present Perfect Simple - Is this an exception ?

 
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justjust



Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:56 am    Post subject: Present Perfect Simple - Is this an exception ? Reply with quote

Hello everybody Smile

Hope you don't mind but I thought I'd post this here as well so that perhaps I finally get an answer to a question asked to many already !

If the present perfect simple is used to emphasise the present result of a past event then why is it correct to say

'Sorry I am late. I missed the bus' and not 'Sorry I am late. I have missed the bus'

Further examples which conform to this rule ..

I can't get in the house. I've lost my keys.
He can now rest because he has finished his work.
My uncle is in hospital because he has had a car accident.
My watch has stopped so I don't know what time it is.

So is the first example simply an exception ?!

Thank you and have a lovely day Wink
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 3012
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(More, or rather less lol) duplicate post answered here:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=11165
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@nthony



Joined: 17 Oct 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Cuba

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:22 pm    Post subject: HI everybody Reply with quote

I was just going through all the pages on this website and out of the blue I focused on this good question you're asking for.
You must always remember what the concept of the present perfect is about, it's an action that began in the past before another took place, so the most important thing it's to say I couldn't get here on time, 'cause I missed the plane. I'm late 'cause I missed the plane, but focus on this one, I had already missed the plane when your father appeared or she's gone but I'm here
See, that's an action the happened before another
It means that whatever the way you managed to stop by was an action that was long after the former one. You missed the plane, but then you had to take something else to come up to that place.
So in my humble opinion I guess that the righlty way to say it's using it without the auxiliary (have), nor in present perfect, but in simple past
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Lorikeet



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 1372
Location: San Francisco, California

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: HI everybody Reply with quote

@nthony wrote:
I was just going through all the pages on this website and out of the blue I focused on this good question you're asking for.
You must always remember what the concept of the present perfect is about, it's an action that began in the past before another took place, so the most important thing it's to say I couldn't get here on time, 'cause I missed the plane. I'm late 'cause I missed the plane, but focus on this one, I had already missed the plane when your father appeared or she's gone but I'm here
See, that's an action the happened before another
It means that whatever the way you managed to stop by was an action that was long after the former one. You missed the plane, but then you had to take something else to come up to that place.
So in my humble opinion I guess that the righlty way to say it's using it without the auxiliary (have), nor in present perfect, but in simple past


I think you are confusing present perfect (as mentioned in the original post) and past perfect (as mentioned in your post).
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 3012
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to see some serious confusion about Past Perfect at least, there's a reviewer on Amazon who's found fault with dozens of grammar books for using the form LOL. It's actually impossible to work out quite what the guy's problem is (other than he doesn't appear to have grasped that a "superfluous" form may in fact have a useful function or two).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A32S9KH0NRGGB0/ref=cm_cr_pr_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview
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Lorikeet



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 1372
Location: San Francisco, California

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffyhamster wrote:
If you want to see some serious confusion about Past Perfect at least, there's a reviewer on Amazon who's found fault with dozens of grammar books for using the form LOL. It's actually impossible to work out quite what the guy's problem is (other than he doesn't appear to have grasped that a "superfluous" form may in fact have a useful function or two).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A32S9KH0NRGGB0/ref=cm_cr_pr_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview


What an oddball! Prior to your pointing out this review, I had never heard of anyone quite so blatantly attempting to rid English of the past perfect. Yes, alas, if I had had a better language background, perhaps I wouldn't have been quite so old fashioned in my usage.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 3012
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya Lori, how's it going? Smile

I just wish the guy could articulate his objections more clearly (perhaps he should write a grammar of his own LOL), but then, to do so he'd actually have to understand a lot more than his pet (and apparently irrational) hate.
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Lorikeet



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 1372
Location: San Francisco, California

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffyhamster wrote:
Hiya Lori, how's it going? Smile

I just wish the guy could articulate his objections more clearly (perhaps he should write a grammar of his own LOL), but then, to do so he'd actually have to understand a lot more than his pet (and apparently irrational) hate.


I'm doing fine, thanks. Hope you are too.

I understand about past perfect not being first on the items to teach, and I also understand that in a lot of cases it is now common usage to use the past in many instances where the past perfect might once have been preferred. That said, there are times where it just fits perfectly and not to use it sounds odd to my ears, but then again, I'm old. Maybe in a few more generations Wink
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