Present Perfect Simple - Is this an exception ?

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justjust
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Present Perfect Simple - Is this an exception ?

Post by justjust » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:56 am

Hello everybody :)

Hope you don't mind but I thought I'd post this here as well so that perhaps I finally get an answer to a question asked to many already !

If the present perfect simple is used to emphasise the present result of a past event then why is it correct to say

'Sorry I am late. I missed the bus' and not 'Sorry I am late. I have missed the bus'

Further examples which conform to this rule ..

I can't get in the house. I've lost my keys.
He can now rest because he has finished his work.
My uncle is in hospital because he has had a car accident.
My watch has stopped so I don't know what time it is.

So is the first example simply an exception ?!

Thank you and have a lovely day ;)

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:16 am

(More, or rather less lol) duplicate post answered here:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=11165

@nthony
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HI everybody

Post by @nthony » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:22 pm

I was just going through all the pages on this website and out of the blue I focused on this good question you're asking for.
You must always remember what the concept of the present perfect is about, it's an action that began in the past before another took place, so the most important thing it's to say I couldn't get here on time, 'cause I missed the plane. I'm late 'cause I missed the plane, but focus on this one, I had already missed the plane when your father appeared or she's gone but I'm here
See, that's an action the happened before another
It means that whatever the way you managed to stop by was an action that was long after the former one. You missed the plane, but then you had to take something else to come up to that place.
So in my humble opinion I guess that the righlty way to say it's using it without the auxiliary (have), nor in present perfect, but in simple past

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Lorikeet
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Re: HI everybody

Post by Lorikeet » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:59 am

@nthony wrote:I was just going through all the pages on this website and out of the blue I focused on this good question you're asking for.
You must always remember what the concept of the present perfect is about, it's an action that began in the past before another took place, so the most important thing it's to say I couldn't get here on time, 'cause I missed the plane. I'm late 'cause I missed the plane, but focus on this one, I had already missed the plane when your father appeared or she's gone but I'm here
See, that's an action the happened before another
It means that whatever the way you managed to stop by was an action that was long after the former one. You missed the plane, but then you had to take something else to come up to that place.
So in my humble opinion I guess that the righlty way to say it's using it without the auxiliary (have), nor in present perfect, but in simple past
I think you are confusing present perfect (as mentioned in the original post) and past perfect (as mentioned in your post).

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:18 pm

If you want to see some serious confusion about Past Perfect at least, there's a reviewer on Amazon who's found fault with dozens of grammar books for using the form LOL. It's actually impossible to work out quite what the guy's problem is (other than he doesn't appear to have grasped that a "superfluous" form may in fact have a useful function or two).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-rev ... centReview

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Lorikeet
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Post by Lorikeet » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:47 pm

fluffyhamster wrote:If you want to see some serious confusion about Past Perfect at least, there's a reviewer on Amazon who's found fault with dozens of grammar books for using the form LOL. It's actually impossible to work out quite what the guy's problem is (other than he doesn't appear to have grasped that a "superfluous" form may in fact have a useful function or two).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-rev ... centReview
What an oddball! Prior to your pointing out this review, I had never heard of anyone quite so blatantly attempting to rid English of the past perfect. Yes, alas, if I had had a better language background, perhaps I wouldn't have been quite so old fashioned in my usage.

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:58 am

Hiya Lori, how's it going? :)

I just wish the guy could articulate his objections more clearly (perhaps he should write a grammar of his own LOL), but then, to do so he'd actually have to understand a lot more than his pet (and apparently irrational) hate.

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Lorikeet
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Post by Lorikeet » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:12 am

fluffyhamster wrote:Hiya Lori, how's it going? :)

I just wish the guy could articulate his objections more clearly (perhaps he should write a grammar of his own LOL), but then, to do so he'd actually have to understand a lot more than his pet (and apparently irrational) hate.
I'm doing fine, thanks. Hope you are too.

I understand about past perfect not being first on the items to teach, and I also understand that in a lot of cases it is now common usage to use the past in many instances where the past perfect might once have been preferred. That said, there are times where it just fits perfectly and not to use it sounds odd to my ears, but then again, I'm old. Maybe in a few more generations ;)

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:56 pm

You're probably closer to any changes than I am (here in the UK), Lori. I should check back through my grammars and maybe get a more up-to-date edition here or there (probably stuff by Leech [et al] rather than e.g. Swan, whose PEU I've found can be a bit unreliable/puzzling in its advice about what is and isn't more standard). I don't recall reading much in the stuff I've got or read so far about this incipient demise of Past Perfect though LOL. Any links? :p (I'm being lazy for the purposes of conversation! :wink: ).

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Lorikeet
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Post by Lorikeet » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:31 am

I've just noticed it from people writing and speaking. I don't like the demise of the past perfect though. There's no better way to show something happened in the past before something else ;)

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