Teacher Discussion Forums

mroques1 · Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 4

I am running into more than one list of symbols used to provide a short hand for sounding out words in English. There is the typical list in the front matter of a Merriam-Webster's dictionary. There is another list in my Teaching Pronunciation book. All claim to be THE standard. Is there really an international standard? Where might I find that? Is there one that works better than others?

EngliPatrick · Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 5

A full version of the IPA can be found at this link:

http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/ipa/fullchart.html

Personally, I think the IPA is a waste of time for English learners. Sorry to all you IPA fans. IPA is not English-specific. I believe its primary advantages are benefitual for linguists and people studying more than one language at a time. However, I believe it is English-biased. IPA assigns a symbol to each sign in the English language. IPA's bias can be seen when considering English is spoken in 73 countries around the world. Meaning, the way that people say certain English words change. I believe Phonics is a better method when teaching students English.

The great thing about the above paragraph is everyone is entitled to an opinion. Smile

Luke Zimmermann · Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 26 Location: UAE

IPA may not be perfect but it is a great tool to use with Asian students because many of them know it. Also, IPA is used in language schools around the world, so many are familiar with it. As a language teacher, you're not looking for a 100% linguistically accurate phonetic system but for a tool that works. By the way, don't worry about all the different systems around, you will find that most differences are systematic. In other words..... sorry, I can't give an example because I don't have phonetic symbols on my computer to insert here.

However, when teaching Arabs, I don't bother with any phonetic symbols but use phonics. Arabs already have enough problems with spelling so to load them with another system of writing is unfair. Phonics works quite well, because they learn spelling patterns and pron at the same time.

blackmagicABC · Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Posts: 37 Location: Taiwan

I don't know in which country you teach but if it is in Taiwan you are probably having your first encounter with Kenyon Knott or KK Phonics as they call it.
They wrote "A pronunciation Dictionary of American English" and although it is based on the IPA it is not exactly the same.
Try to explain to a student that there are 6 acceptable ways to pronounce "square" for example and they say "well the why are we learning only one way and what is the point of the KK?".
My usual response is "Exactly".
I really wish the students and school owners will realize that it is not called a GUIDE to pronunciation because we don't know what "guide" means. It should be treated as a guide and not much more for students. It could be very confusing and dubious.

Luke Zimmermann · Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 26 Location: UAE

I work in the United Arab Emirates and teach Arab students. I don't know Kenyon Knott and have never been in Taiwan. I taught a lot of Taiwanese, Chinese, Korens and Japanese students in Australia over 15 years and found IPA a extremely useful tool in improving their pron.

I am not sure if I understood what you meant but had the impression that you are mixing phonics and IPA. Phonics are good to show spelling patterns and IPA is good for showing pron. I usually stick to the most common local accent (in Australia, obviously Australian) but discuss American pron if the students asked about it. This means that the word "bath" for example has a different IPA transcription in Australian (or British) and American English.

What do you mean by teaching "6 acceptable ways to pronounce "square"" ?

blackmagicABC · Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Posts: 37 Location: Taiwan

I am not mixing IPA and Phonics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenyon_and_Knott

Many students in Taiwan are required to not only learn the KK (Kenyon and Knott system) but also write it in spelling tests. The problem I have with this is like in the example I gave the word "square" has 6 correct transcriptions and they are only taught one and told that the other five are incorrect. Problem is that waht they write and say are not always the same.
I am not saying teach 6 ways to pronounce square. I am saying teach that the person not pronouncing an "r" sound at the end of the word is as correct as one that doesn't.

Luke Zimmermann · Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 26 Location: UAE

OK. I see what you mean. In the end we just want them to be intelligible whether they pronounce square with the r or wihout. Who cares?

It sounds like a poroblem with the system you are working in. Good luck.

blackmagicABC · Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Posts: 37 Location: Taiwan

Just for clarification I did mean to say
"The person not pronouncing the "r" is as correct as the one that does"

Luke, all I can say to your last comment is "I know and it is very frustrating" They seem to approach it like there is only one way to write it, and one way to do it and thus only one correct way. Parents of students, who are confused as hell, seem to believe this nonsense.