AHD calls "such as" an adjective. Is this correct

donnach · Post by **donnach** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:03 pm

From www.dictionary.com:

Adj.
Of a kind specified or implied: a boy such as yourself.

If it's used in place of like, then isn't it a preposition? I've looked in my Fowlers English Usage and done searches on the Internet and I can't find any place that specifically states that "such as" is a preposition in this sense. (I need things spelled out for me sometimes and this is one of those times.)

Thank you,

Donna

ouyang · Post by **ouyang** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:25 pm

I would agree that "such as" is a compound preposition like "instead of" , "because of" or "except for". The website http://grammar.about.com/od/c/g/comprepterm.htm lists "such as" with other complex prepositions. I think the term "complex preposition" should be reserved for phrases like "in spite of" and "in addition to" myself.

The word "such" is actually rather unusual. It's classified as an adjective in sentences like "Such is life." This implies that "life" is the subject of the clause. The form of the verb indicates that it functions like the expletive "there" as a stand-in subject. We probably say "Such are the problems of an English teacher." because the real subject is the plural noun "problems". However, I've never read anything that would confirm that theory.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:42 pm

Yes, it is unusual. Shaped liked a star. Shall we put it in with the squares or the triangles?

Why is grammar always like this?

I can't see where it resembles an adjective. Usually it resembles an adverb, in "such nice weather" etc.

I agree that whatever "like" is, in that context, "such as" is being that thing too. So if "like" is a preposition, which is dubious, then such as is the same. If "like" is an adjective, which is dubious, "such as" is too.

Anyway, looking it up, I can see some worthy adjective-like suches over at dictionary.com, but I can't see where it says "such as" is an adjective. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/such

donnach · Post by **donnach** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:06 pm

I agree that whatever "like" is, in that context, "such as" is being that thing too. So if "like" is a preposition, which is dubious, then such as is the same. If "like" is an adjective, which is dubious, "such as" is too.

I understand that you believe such as to be a preposition in the example I provided. I'm confused as to what your dubiousness refers to since like is both a preposition and an adjective.

Anyway, looking it up, I can see some worthy adjective-like suches over at dictionary.com, but I can't see where it says "such as" is an adjective. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/such

If you scroll down to the AHD entry you'll see where I've pulled my example from.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/such

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This such Audio Help (sŭch) Pronunciation Key
adj.

Of this kind: a single parent, one of many such people in the neighborhood.
Of a kind specified or implied: a boy such as yourself. Of a degree or quality indicated: Their anxiety was such that they could not sleep.

Also, http://www.thefreedictionary.com/such has the exact same example listed as an adjective.

such (sch)
adj.
1.
a. Of this kind: a single parent, one of many such people in the neighborhood.
b. Of a kind specified or implied: a boy such as yourself.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:25 am

The AHD appears to be calling "such" an adjective and "as" a preposition.
(and the other dictionary too - probably the same person wrote both examples anyway).

Modern linguists define word classes by stating the typical qualities, and then tick off how many qualities a particular candidate has. "Such" is never going to be a word which ticks all of the boxes for a particular class in all of its shapes however you look at it. It will never be prototypical of anything. Does it matter? Not so much I think - it only matters to some people because they make such sweeping statements regarding how the language functions without allowing for oddballs.

As to whether we treat "such as" as one item, I'm against it I think, because it is perhaps shorthand for "such things/examples/an item as".

donnach · Post by **donnach** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:45 am

The AHD appears to be calling "such" an adjective and "as" a preposition.
(and the other dictionary too - probably the same person wrote both examples anyway).

Thanks for the explanation. I know some of my questions seem so prescriptivist, but I'm really just grasping at whatever rules I can find to make grammar a more concrete and graspable for concept for me. Eventually, with some effort, I hope to be able to make out the forest, and to do that I know by definition I'll have to let the trees (rules) go out of focus a bit. Until then, I'm still discovering the trees. Thanks again for figuring out what AHD was doing, I would've never been able to figure that one out.

Donna