Job Discussion Forums

[llamapirate]

I've been offered a contract at a university that I'm pretty interested in taking, but before I commit, I was hoping for some advice on specific things I may be overlooking or places I should ask for more money. I have a state teaching certificate and a few years experience teaching English in a US public school so I'd assume I can probably leverage that a little, but since I've never negotiated a contract before I honestly have no idea where to begin or even what's reasonable to ask for.

The quick rundown on the school and offer is this:
-University in a tourist city about 4 million population - Guangdong province - maybe Tier 3?
-6,000rmb a month 11 month contract with 12th month if I do another year.
-Maximum 16 teaching periods a week
-Housing with kitchen (includes cooking equipment and microwave), bathroom, furniture, bedding, television set, refrigerator, washing machine, and air-conditioning provided
-1,000 rmb for bedding upon arrival
-2,000 rmb for utilities for the year
-5,000 rmb for airfare upon completion
-Paid winter and summer breaks

From what I've read, everything looks pretty standard for a smaller city. I've seen pictures of a campus apartment and talked to some current teachers and everything sounds good. Is there anything else I'm missing or anywhere I should specifically ask for more? Thanks!

[currentaffairs]

Your basic salary seems low, and I think you could get more. I haven't worked in China, though. As a way into the country it seems a pretty good gig... with the hols and workload.

[Deats]

I have just been through the same process of applying to unis. EVERY uni that offered me the job (a dozen or so) offered me a pay rise the second I said their offer was too low. Some unis offered 500RMB a month more, some offered 1000RMB a month more. Some increased the contract length from 10 to 11 or 12 months (this makes a HUGE difference). In the end I got a contract paying an average of 11,000RMB a month.

Unis offering only 6000 over 11 months (66000) with only 5000 air fare will not get many good applicants. Therefore, you should be in the driving seat.

Tell them you have other offers you are considering. Tell them your minimum salary expectations i.e you want at least 75,000RMB a year in wages. I would be gobsmacked if they didn't offer you more - at least 6500RMB.

Also, most unis have a budget to spend i.e. 6000 on BA, 6500 on MA, 7000 on Masters. So the budget is there for them to move.

[zacharybilton]

6000 RMB is BY FAR normal for a university position.

The funniest part here is related to your title. What can you negotiate? Well, you are free to negotiate any term of your contract you wish, that's your right. But, fact is, they are not going to negotiate with you. There are more than enough "teachers" out there who will take the jobs and they are not going to tack on 500 or 1000 RMB a month - it's that simple. They are not going to add extra months of pay during holidays. They are not.

I'm not sure where "budgets" comes from. Nor the idea of the foreigners being "in the driving seat" -- those are simply hardly true.

There is a reason salaries are in this range - because employers can find anyone to fill the seat, they don't need to be strong-armed into salary increases.

It's that simple.

[Deats]

I have literally just experienced what I wrote, so trust me you can ask for more. And from my experience you will get more. In China EVERYTHING is up for negotiation.

[3701 W.119th]

[Son of Bud Powell]

My experience with PUBLIC universities is this:

If a recruiter is involved, you might be able to negotiate for a little more salary because some of them low ball the fresh fish who have no experience in order to make the college or university happy. If you have an MA, you may be offered a BA salary. It doesn't hurt to try to ASK for more. Find out the standard rate for your area. This may be learned by reading many contracts from many schools in your province.

It is becoming more common for public colleges and universities NOT to offer to pay for water and electricity in the contract. Sometimes that can be negotiated into the contract, as can television and internet (though more and more often, public universities and colleges require the FT to pay for it. (If the school isn't already paying for it, it won't bother with making a payment for you).

A public university should provide a free PRIVATE apartment.

One thing to take into account is that more and more universities have moved from a centrally-located area of the city to the boonies. You may be housed on the old campus but be required to take a forty-five minute bus ride to the new campus to teach in the sticks. Find out if this is the case. You really don't want this scenario unless you are compensated for bus fare ( only a few rmb daily) AND travel time. You may not want it at all.

Commuting gets old after awhile. If you teach a class on another campus every day, it'll add at least another ninety minutes to your daily work schedule. If you have a split schedule (a morning class and a late afternoon class, it'll add three hours per day if you want to return to your apartment during the intervening hours). Worse, the bus may not even run a regular schedule. That means arriving late for class frequently while the bus driver takes a nap in his bus that is parked around the corner. Been there. Done that. Three years of it was enough. Be sure to ask about this. If you get a vague answer, walk away from the job. I mean it. Sixteen weekly hours work time can turn into 30+ hours quite easily if you must commute. If you are offered a bicycle to make the commute "easier", RUN.

Your best bet is to incorporate your needs into a cover letter. If the school can meet your needs, it will address them with an amended contract.

Six thousand RMB sounds pretty standard for a public university or college.

Otherwise, take a preceding responder's word: there's really not much room for negotiation with public institutions. It's pretty much a take-it-or-leave it situation.

[Son of Bud Powell]

[buravirgil]

I can second what SoBP asserts. (And SoBP's going to amend that quote of six large in dollars to rmb, right?)

11k/month? Are you combining income with valuations of compensation? And could you clear up what

[Deats]

The 7000 masters should say PHD. Sorry.

This thing about a province pay scale is bullsh1t. It's just what the unis say. In Fujian and Guangdong in public universities I have been offered from 4500-11000. I applied as a couple with my Russian wife (her degree is BA in linguistics and CPE is 99%, so same as an educated native.) We are both BA holder, TEFL certified and have 6 years experience (4 in a Chinese uni). So we are hardly top of the food ladder CV wise.

The differences were vast. The ones I asked to negotiate all sent better offers in some form or another, like I mentioned above. The maximum pay increase was 1000 a month, but like I also said, some added on an 11th or even 12th month. One way I negotiated was to say we only used 1 apartment, so pay us more - obviously a single person can't do that. I also said 6 years experience is worth something, and places agreed, hence they'd bump the salary from BA level to MA level - or PHD level in one case.

My 11,000 a month is broken down from 10000 basic + 14000 a year bonus. I have NOT included flights, apartment, travel allowance - these are all paid, too. Utilities are not. If you renew, it is a 12 month contract.

If you PM me OP maybe I can send you the contacts of some of these unis, I think at least a couple still have vacancies and ALL pay over 6000.

I think 6000 is low for Guangdong, especially with your qualifications.

[buravirgil]

[Son of Bud Powell]

[Deats]

WHERE did I say anything about Guizhou, Gansu or Yunnan?

I said in FUJIAN and GUANGDONG universities are paying up to 11000. It's a fact, I have a contract that proves it.

There are many jobs in Guangdong paying over 6k. Usually starting at 6500-8000. It's not hard to find them.

I know one uni in Xiamen was offering 10k - didn't get offered that job.

Like the poster above said, the OP could even apply to an international school and get paid 20k+

[Son of Bud Powell]

[Deats]

http://www.eslconsultant.com/products_detail/&productId=46.html

http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/China/index.pl?read=262693

http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/China/index.pl?read=263262

Here are 3 jobs paying 8k straight away.

Oh sorry, I forgot the government says they can only pay 6k

It took me 10 mins to look back and find these.

It's funny how much more you can get paid with a little research.

I found 2 jobs paying 10k+ the one I took and the one in Xiamen - sure you can find the Xiamen one online with a little digging.

Cheers.