Job Discussion Forums

[MyTrunkshow]

Has anyone bought a dog from overseas to Hail, KSA? Or to a compound in KSA?

It's a small to medium size dog. It will have all its shots before it goes over ...after I learn what they are from the appropriate authorities.

I see other pets have been brought over to other countries.

Regards,
mytrunkshow

[Cleopatra]

Conservative Muslims consider dogs unclean, and would object to having one in their presence.

That said, I'm not sure if dogs are actually illegal in the Kingdom. I have seen a few in compounds and other expat residential areas, but it's possible that they were brought over by diplomats who, as always, are exempt from local rules. Perhaps someone more familiar with all things canine can enlighten us more.

[cmp45]

I am no expert on this topic, but just the other day I saw a huge dog waiting in a car for it's owner on Jairir(sp?) Street. It's head stuck out the window. It was a huge dog so no one dared go near it LOL It was an odd sight and actually drew a small crowd of onlookers...it is a very rare sight indeed and as stated above... dogs...as other pets are a fairly new concept...however there are thriving pets shops around town so I would assume that many locals and expatriates do keep pets.

Unfortunately there are so many poor street cats that hang out at nearly every rubbish bin in town, but you would never see a stray dog running loose in Riyadh!
If you bring a pet over do take care when taking your dog out in public as you may encounter negative responses from the locals.

Also do not leave the dog in the car while you go shopping as the heat can be very intense. I wittnessed this ignorant mistake first hand in the UAE! Okay that's my 2 cents worth...

[007]

[veiledsentiments]

If you want to bring your dog, My Trunkshow, it might be easier if you went to the other Gulf countries which allow it with no problems (and you don't have to insist that your chihuahua is truly a 'guard dog' ).

I know quite a few people who have taken their dogs to the Emirates, Oman and Kuwait.

VS

[Mia Xanthi]

I would suggest that if you are determined to come to KSA with your dog (instead of going to another, more canine-friendly Gulf nation), you should get in touch with your employer first to find out if dogs are allowed in the compound or apartment which your employer will provide for you.

As mentioned previously, dogs are considered unclean, and it may be that your Saudi landlord would object to having one live inside a villa or a flat.

Most compounds don't have much in the way of a private garden, and I would never recommend keeping your dog outside of the house here because someone is likely to cause the dog harm. Therefore, your first step is to find out if it will be at all possible for your dog to live with you here.

I would say that the import laws are less of a worry than whether your dog will be allowed inside company housing.

[johnslat]

To Hail, no. But I did bring a dog, a Shihtzu (a breed that it would be awfully hard to classify as either a "guard" or "watch" dog) to Jeddah, and that was way back in 1980.
I had gotten all the required papers and certifications and had the entry permit from the Saudi embassy in Washington. But, when I got to customs in Jeddah, they gave me a hard time, telling me they didn't care about what the embassy said; the dog wasn't going to enter the Kingdom. Then they "confiscated the dog" and were going to "ship him back."
So, I went to my boss, the Director of the Jeddah Branch of the IPA and explained the situation. He got on the phone, used a little "wasta", and presto - the dog was admitted.
And I wasn't even living on a compound - we were housed in an apartment building. I kept the dog there for three years - you should have seen the looks I got when I took him for "walkies."
When I left in 2003, the "pet" situation in the Kingdom had changed a lot from what it had been in 1980. I'm pretty sure there weren't even any pet stores back then, but in 2003, there were a few in Riyadh. And dogs weren't all that uncommon.

Here's some info on the "pet ban":

The decree � which applies to the Red Sea port city of Jiddah and the holy city of Mecca � bans the sale of cats and dogs because "some youths have been buying them and parading them in public,"according to a memo from the Municipal Affairs Ministry to Jiddah's city government.
The decree has not been enforced yet, according to several pet shop owners and veterinary clinics in Jiddah. It applies only to selling dogs and cats, and there was no sign the Muttawa would confiscate pets. The decree did not say whether the religious police would try to stop people from appearing in public with their dog or cat � or whether owners would be allowed to sell puppies or kittens born to their pets.

The ban distressed cat and dog lovers. Some have wondered why the religious police are focusing on this issue when the country has far more important challenges to deal with, such as terrorism and unemployment.

"I was shocked when I heard about it," said Fahd al-Mutairi, who owns 35 pet cats. "What was even more shocking was to hear that the ban came from an authority that has nothing to do with such an issue."
No other Arab country puts restrictions on pet owning. In Iran, ruled by Shiite Muslim clerics, religious police sometimes harrass people who are seen outside with their dog. Last year, Iranian police even told people not to bring their dogs out in public, but the order was never backed up by law and dog-owners widely ignored it.

The inclusion of cats in the Saudi ban puzzled many, since there's no similar scorn for them as there is for dogs in Islamic tradition

One of Prophet Muhammad's closest companions was given the name Abu Huraira, Arabic for "the father of the kitten," because he always carried a kitten around with him and took care of it.

A number of hadiths � traditional stories of the prophet � show Muhammad encouraging people to treat cats well.

Once, he let a cat drink from the water that he was going to use for his ablutions before prayers. Another time, Muhammad said a woman who kept a cat locked up without feeding it would go to Hell.

Dogs � considered dirty and dangerous � are less lucky. According to one hadith, Muhammad said a Muslim loses credit for one good deed each day he keeps a dog and even said dogs should be killed unless used for hunting or protection.

Still, in another instance, he said that a prostitute who carried water in her slipper to a thirsty dog would go to heaven, her sins forgiven because of her kindness.

"All these things considered, it is obviously not against our religion or our tradition to have dogs and cats as pets," columnist Abeer Mishkhas wrote in the daily Arab News.

"I sincerely hope (city authorities) will leave the cats and dogs alone and concentrate on what should be their real business," she added.

Al-Mutairi said his friends and relatives cannot understand his passion for his cats, which cost him US$1,000 a month to feed and take care of.

"I tell them this is not a Western innovation," he said. "Our religion says we should take care of animals."

Regards,
John

[spiral78]

What about dogs who work as necessary companions, like guide dogs for the blind?

Not that I'm going to try to go to Saudi...where the dog's not welcome, I'm not tempted to go.

[MyTrunkshow]

Lots of insight posted.

My thoughts align with Mia. I was contemplating contacting the vice rector of Univ. Of Hail after I sign the contract. In our post interview meeting, he told me that for the most part, the school turns an eye away from the goings-on in the teacher's housing.

Perhaps if there is at least one other dog there, then I will try to bring Gogo. Where is Brasscat when you need him? Or any other Hail staff to let us know if there is a dog there? Would I be able to walk him around within the compound? Is there an open area in the compound where he could be off leash and sort of semi-private where our illicit activity of throwing/fetching a stick could be clandestine?

He was on death row at the pound here in Taiwan. He's come a long way since I saved him last November. He's a young happy lappy licky dog and loves people so it will be easy to find him owners if I can't get him around the other side of the world.

Regards,
mytrunkshow

[johnslat]

Dear MyTrunkshow,
I hope you can take Gogo with you. Some of my Saudi colleagues who lived in that apartment building with me fell in love with Chu Lai (my dog), and one of them, Faisal, used to come down just to play with him.
We have two dogs here now in Santa Fe: Tenzie, a ten-month old Lhasa Apso puppy and Phu Bai, a lord-knows-how-old (but probably about 12) chihuahua/terrier mix that we adopted from the shelter here. Having to part from one or both of them would be very, very tough.
Regards,
John

[trapezius]

[MyTrunkshow]

Have you worked at Hail trapezius?

Regards,
mytrunkshow

[windstar]

[johnslat]

Dear windstar,
If I may correct you:

"johnslat wrote"

Not really - johnslat cut and pasted.

There's nothing in the Quran to that effect, only (according to this source) in some Hadiths:

"Malik Al-Muwatta . Hadith 54.13: Malik related to me from Nafi from Abdullah ibn Umar that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Whoever acquires a dog other than a sheepdog or hunting dog, will have two qirats deducted from the reward of his good actions every day." Malik related to me from Nafi from Abdullah ibn Umar that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered dogs to be killed."

http://www.worldofislam.netfirms.com/dogs.html

Regards,
John

[windstar]

Nothing personal. I just did not read anything like that. When you quote that "XXX wrote" comes up. I cannot do anything for that, or I do not know how to quote in another way. I checked the hadithes and they explain the reasons to keep a dog on three grounds. I could not find killing part of the hadith. I will try one more time.