|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
flyingcolours
Joined: 04 Oct 2011
Posts: 73
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
eihpos
Joined: 14 Dec 2008
Posts: 331
|
 Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:43 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Hi,
I have an interview with them in a couple of days and would love some advice as it sounds like it might be a fairly in - depth one!
I did a search and read the postings on this forum on ALS and they sounds ok, though they seem to hire people on as tourist visa initially, saying they will change it as soon as you get to Japan. Don't know how true this is or how you feel about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spidr245
Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 60
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| eihpos wrote: |
Hi,
I did a search and read the postings on this forum on ALS and they sounds ok, though they seem to hire people on as tourist visa initially, saying they will change it as soon as you get to Japan. |
How is that good? That sounds shady already. People working on tourist visas are illegal workers here. (Correct me if I'm wrong someone, but that's what I remember.) So if they decide to not pay you, there isn't really anything you can do about it (which I've seen people on here complain about numerous times already).
If you frequent these boards enough, you would have read the horror stories with tourist visas and working already.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nimaime
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 51
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| eihpos wrote: |
Hi,
I have an interview with them in a couple of days and would love some advice as it sounds like it might be a fairly in - depth one!
I did a search and read the postings on this forum on ALS and they sounds ok, though they seem to hire people on as tourist visa initially, saying they will change it as soon as you get to Japan. Don't know how true this is or how you feel about it. |
How soon did they get back to you after you sent them your resume? I sent them my resume/CV a couple months ago and never heard from them.
Also, are you outside Japan?
I had a phone interview with them a couple years ago. Didn't have half the qualifications or experience as I do now. I remember the woman was a little impolite and she said they would call back but never did. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:10 am Post subject: Illegal |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I did a search and read the postings on this forum on ALS and they sounds ok, though they seem to hire people on as tourist visa initially, saying they will change it as soon as you get to Japan. Don't know how true this is or how you feel about it. |
Run! Run in the other direction! Claiming to hire you on a tourist visa is illegal and I would even say fraud.
The US Consular Affairs website says
| Quote: |
U.S. citizens should not come to Japan to work without having the proper employment visa arranged ahead of time, or in the hopes of earning a large salary. Teaching English, even privately, and serving as hosts/hostesses are both considered "work" in Japan and are illegal without the proper visa.
Some U.S.-based employment agencies and Japanese employers do not fully discuss or correctly represent the true nature of employment terms and conditions. U.S. consular officers in Japan receive numerous complaints from U.S. citizens who come to Japan to work as English teachers, carpenters, models, actors, entertainers, exotic dancers, and bar hosts/hostesses. The complaints include contract violations, non-payment of salary for months at a time, sexual harassment, intimidation, and threats of arrest, deportation, and physical assault.
A minimum requirement for effectively seeking the protection of Japanese labor law is a written and signed work contract. Without a signed contract, Japanese authorities do not get involved on behalf of foreign workers. If you�re coming to Japan to work, carefully review your contracts and the history and reputation of your Japanese employer before traveling to Japan. We cannot confirm information about prospective Japanese employers although we may be familiar with organizations or have received complaints in the past. If you are asked to do something you find troubling, you should reconsider being in Japan and think about terminating your employment and returning to the United States. |
It's here - http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1148.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:11 am Post subject: Illegal |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I did a search and read the postings on this forum on ALS and they sounds ok, though they seem to hire people on as tourist visa initially, saying they will change it as soon as you get to Japan. Don't know how true this is or how you feel about it. |
Run! Run in the other direction! Claiming to hire you on a tourist visa is illegal and I would even say fraud.
The US Consular Affairs website says
| Quote: |
U.S. citizens should not come to Japan to work without having the proper employment visa arranged ahead of time, or in the hopes of earning a large salary. Teaching English, even privately, and serving as hosts/hostesses are both considered "work" in Japan and are illegal without the proper visa.
Some U.S.-based employment agencies and Japanese employers do not fully discuss or correctly represent the true nature of employment terms and conditions. U.S. consular officers in Japan receive numerous complaints from U.S. citizens who come to Japan to work as English teachers, carpenters, models, actors, entertainers, exotic dancers, and bar hosts/hostesses. The complaints include contract violations, non-payment of salary for months at a time, sexual harassment, intimidation, and threats of arrest, deportation, and physical assault.
A minimum requirement for effectively seeking the protection of Japanese labor law is a written and signed work contract. Without a signed contract, Japanese authorities do not get involved on behalf of foreign workers. If you�re coming to Japan to work, carefully review your contracts and the history and reputation of your Japanese employer before traveling to Japan. We cannot confirm information about prospective Japanese employers although we may be familiar with organizations or have received complaints in the past. If you are asked to do something you find troubling, you should reconsider being in Japan and think about terminating your employment and returning to the United States. |
It's here - http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1148.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
taffer
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: All due respect |
|
|
TokyoLiz is someone who I, (and many other members no doubt) regard as a boon to this website. She knows her stuff and does not mince words.
However, I want fellow teachers to entertain a thought or two here. I have been hired on tourist visas in Praha, Istanbul, Taipei, Guangzhou, Seoul, Busan, and Shanghai and had those visas changed to work visas after I had gotten to those places and worked for a month or so. Was it perfectly legal? No.
Some here are talking as if this were something which happens only in Japan. Or perhaps just with ALS.
The fact of the matter is there are not many companies who have the juice or the desire to square your visa away prior to your arrival. Most have you come over on a landing visa/ tourist visa then help you to convert post arrival.
I challenge anyone out there to come forward and say that ALS has treated them with anything but fairness. Deception or fraud are not things that this company is known for. I would have had nothing to do with them if it were otherwise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: All due respect |
|
|
| taffer wrote: |
| I challenge anyone out there to come forward and say that ALS has treated them with anything but fairness. Deception or fraud are not things that this company is known for. I would have had nothing to do with them if it were otherwise. |
It's fair to make a new arrival fork out for plane tickets (yes plural since many airline check in staff do their job properly and won't let people come in on a oneway without a valid visa or SOR) and what not to come over here and risk having a run in with the police, getting deported and getting banned for ten years because they don't have the desire to do things in the legit manner? Don't know what "juice" means, but if you are implying that it costs the company anything to put in a COE app, you're mistaken.
I got IDed in the streets in my first couple of weeks in Japan. Didn't matter for me, since I had an employer who had the desire to make sure that we arrived with work visas in hand. But according to you, the fact that I would have probably been punished because some companies (put together my company and JET and you probably have the majority of ALTs in Japan, all of whom arrive with visas in hand and even some of the absolute scum employers in the ESL industry seem able to get visas in advance for their employees; do you have any proof to back up your claim?) such as ASL couldn't be bothered to file some paper work is okay because they treat the ones who don't get caught with "fairness"?
And in all those other countries, did your employers make you come over and start working illegally? Many people might choose to go over to countries on tourist visas with the intention of seeking employment, but that is their choice and completely different to companies forcing people to come over and work illegally.
I also worked in China. But unlike you I had a valid visa on arrival. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cat mother
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 62
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's been my understanding (from what I heard about this on a different occasion) is that ALS doesn't actually expect you to work while they're processing your visa. You just sit and wait for it, that's all.
This was also common at some of the smaller schools I used to work at, they simply had too many people not showing up after getting their visas. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cat mother wrote: |
It's been my understanding (from what I heard about this on a different occasion) is that ALS doesn't actually expect you to work while they're processing your visa. You just sit and wait for it, that's all.
This was also common at some of the smaller schools I used to work at, they simply had too many people not showing up after getting their visas. |
Are they going to pay you whilst you sit for up to two months (or more) unable to work? If a legit mistake is made and a COE app gets delayed for longer than the duration of a person's tourist visa, are they going to pay for people to exit and re-enter the country if they are not of a nationality that can extend their tourist status in country? Are they going to pay for the additional outbound ticket that many will have been forced to purchase because they don't have a visa?
And if something does go horribly wrong and your COE app is rejected, are they going to pay to get you back to your own country if that is what you want to do?
Again, how is this considered as treating employees with fairness? You think that just because a few rotten apples have done a runner, it justifies the company making genuine newbies pay?
And many small employers won't employ people who are not physically present in the country; that is not the same as emplying someone from abroad and then telling them that they must come over and either work illegally or sit around at their own expense. These employers are often employing the one of the multitude of people who are here with a legal working status or one of the foreigners who chose to come over and risk job hunting on a tourist visa. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cat mother wrote: |
| It's been my understanding (from what I heard about this on a different occasion) is that ALS doesn't actually expect you to work while they're processing your visa. You just sit and wait for it, that's all. |
Why can't the applicant sit and wait in their home country, then quickly fly out to Japan once they're legit and able to immediately start work?
| Quote: |
| This was also common at some of the smaller schools I used to work at, they simply had too many people not showing up after getting their visas. |
I don't know about other people, but I've never thought it would look too good if I applied for another job after never having worked for the first (i.e. surely employment history matters even in the Japanese TEFL industry); then there are issues such as arranging accommodation (easier, and usual, with schools that hire overseas applicants), letters of release etc. Plus there is little to stop somebody leaving a job anyway (I mean provided they give the required notice). But yes, I'm sure there are always a few runners who never actually arrived! That's a risk that a legit employer should and would be willing to take, though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cat mother
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 62
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
Why can't the applicant sit and wait in their home country, then quickly fly out to Japan once they're legit and able to immediately start work?
|
Because instead of immediately starting work, they immediately start looking for another job.
| Quote: |
| That's a risk that a legit employer should and would be willing to take, though. |
If you were a small school owner in the countryside, I'm pretty sure your point of view would be very different.
Seklarwia, nobody is forcing anyone to come here on a tourist visa, if they don't want to. But those who want, will. And how is coming here job hunting on a tourist visa any different than coming to a job already waiting for you and waiting for a work visa to be processed?
The second option causes self-righteous anger and the first one is repeatedly recommended as a viable option.
Yet the risks in both of these cases are pretty much the same. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
But the risks simply are not the same, cat mother (nobody can know what the risks are in a particular work situation until it is too late. I'm obviously talking generally here, rather than about ALS or any specific school or employer). With a work visa in hand, you are protecting yourself against the worser exploitation and cheating that's out there, which exists whether we like it or believe it or not, as TokyoLiz, Sek, I, and doubtless others have pointed out here and on quite a few other threads. That is the point. But if anyone is so determined to come to Japan that they will take those not just arguably greater risks, I'm not out to dissuade them, as I appreciate that the need for work (with a bit of travel or whatever thrown in) can be pressing. Just have a very large pinch of salt handy though if an employer says they have no other option than to "hire" visaless candidates from abroad (what, with all the possible applicants already with valid visas and in between jobs in Japan, who could relocate to even the most isolated part of the countryside a lot quicker than anyone not yet residing in Japan).
Note that I am not talking about job searching (those who have the funds to do so as a tourist, feel free!), but about coming over on a wing and a prayer but little else. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cat mother wrote: |
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
Why can't the applicant sit and wait in their home country, then quickly fly out to Japan once they're legit and able to immediately start work?
|
Because instead of immediately starting work, they immediately start looking for another job. |
Well that's how it worked for many of us. I got a job, I got a visa and then flew out to Japan. And many people I know did it in the same order.
Believe it or not, not every foreigner is a lying cheat.
| Quote: |
Seklarwia, nobody is forcing anyone to come here on a tourist visa, if they don't want to. But those who want, will. And how is coming here job hunting on a tourist visa any different than coming to a job already waiting for you and waiting for a work visa to be processed?
The second option causes self-righteous anger and the first one is repeatedly recommended as a viable option.
Yet the risks in both of these cases are pretty much the same. |
I think Fluffy has pretty much answered that one for me.
Besides there are better ways for employers to try and weed out the few applicants who are merely trying to get a visa that do not involve making them come over on tourist visa and all the potential consequences (not to mention the additional costs) that that might entail for that newbie: Is it AEON that requests a deposit which they hand back to employees on arrival? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Inflames
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'll add that the school can simply apply for the CoE and, once approved, hold it for the person to arrive, at which point they go to immigration and have everything changed over. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
