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Lobster · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:56 am Post subject:

The Story of English by McCrum, Cran and MacNeil for those who are interested in why English is a Germanic Language. Read this book and you'll be able to answer all those pesky questions and not make strange and illogical comments.

RED

RalphReggin · Joined: 15 Feb 2012 Posts: 26

i havent started teaching yet but i just cant see how it would matter ,, your there to teach english not over analize it ,, highly dout this is ever gonna come up in a regular class ,,,

wangdaning · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 3154

I will ask my brother, his name is Jacob Grimm Very Happy

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

You're right RalphReggin.
Unlikely a student would ask - at least as a genuine question. They might to show their just acquired knowledge though.
One or two CTs have been interested in deeper understanding but mainly on shades of meaning. All those near-synonyms English has.

Lobster · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:20 am Post subject:

They're called cognates, and the etymological reasons for their existence should be interesting for anyone with more than a passing interest in the subject they're teaching. I suppose that most FTs aren't really that interested in the subject enough to educate themselves. For those who are, I recommend Skeat's Concise Etymological Dictionary of the English Language. While you're at it, you can pick up the COBUILD English Grammar reference and get a handle on what makes the language tick.

RED

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

Sorry Lobster.
I didn't want to sound o**rb*****g and s**fi*******t when talking to a valued Chinese colleague
It was the subtleties between say 'hate' and 'loathe' that the CT was interested in. Not the name.

sainthood · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:38 am Post subject:

Firstly, @ Miles... ummm - no! Just, no! English is Germanic because of its grammar and structure, not it pronunciation. Secondly, the Great Vowel Shift was NOT pre-historic, but only a few hundred years ago!! (and, Grimm was talking about consonants, not vowels!) And, it's Germanic cos the Germanic language got hammered into a mix with Brythonic and Latin about 1500-1200 years ago (depending on the theory you read... as I mentioned, ain't it funny that the closest European mainland language is Frisian, just across the coast... yet, they weren't a big part of the Norse invasioin.... long-standing trade over centuries makes a LOT more sense!)

But, I TOTALLY agree with caring enough about your subject to get involved in it...

It DOES have relevance to students, contrary to some opinions... (not so much the Germanic stuff, but certianly Latin and Greek). I taught the history of English, so that they understood why they get confused... and for new vocabulary... you recognise '-ology' from 'biology', 'geology' etc, so what's this new word you've never seen before with '-ology' (eg, ('cosmology') in it? Roots, stems, prefixes and suffixes.... all (well, mostly) Latin and Greek! German verbs, French silent letters, and a lot of imports from other languages (that alter the rules).

I teach this, because I don't want my students to RELY on me spoon-feeding all their answers... but to be able to figure things out for themselves. Makes getting meaning from context OH SO MUCH easier!

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee

Mea culpa. I am wrong. I meant to say the First Germanic Sound Shift. That's what they're calling it now. It predates the Norman invasion by over 2,000 years, though.

Thank you for correcting me. It's still Grimm's Law! (Or is it an amended Rask-Grimm's Rule?). Embarassed

dean_a_jones · Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 1151 Location: Wuhan, China

Mea whatnow? That there don't sound like good English to these ears...

Guerciotti · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject:

Seriously, you don't know 'mea culpa'?

dean_a_jones · Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 1151 Location: Wuhan, China

Guerciotti · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject:

To each his own.

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee

It's Latin for "through my fault".

It crept into the English language in common usage a few hundred years ago through the Catholic Church. It is expressed in a prayer called the "Confiteor Deo" in which the penitent says "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa", or "through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault...".

It's what one says when he is truly and humbly sorry.

That's what a Catholic education will do to you.

[I think I got this one right].

dean_a_jones · Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 1151 Location: Wuhan, China

You did.

My attempts at humour and wordplay seemed to fail, but I do appreciate the willingness to provide an explanation.

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee