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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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 Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| bharrell wrote: |
How much is higher education worth in cold hard money? A college master's degree is worth $1.3 million more in lifetime earnings than a high school diploma, according to a recent report from the U.S. Census Bureau.
The report titled "The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings" reveals that over an adult's working life, high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.1 million; and people with a master's degree, $2.5 million. |
I see your point, but I kind of disagree. Sure the MA holder may make more, but they might spend more too. Keeping up with the Joneses if you will. Working class, blue collared works may not feel the pressure to buy that huge house, take international vacations, etc. Therefore, their networth can be higher. Added to that: no student loans.
People have said it before, people with no college education or those who haven't finished their degree are doing fine. And I'm not talking about the Mark Zuckermans of the world. I'm talking about your local electricians and plumbers. My grandfather's has been retired longer than he worked. He was a construction worker. Times have changed, but the main idea still holds true.
MA grads earn double: but they haven't said anything about networth, student loans, mortgages, etc. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| tttompatz wrote: |
| Now Korean immigration require an appostile affixed to the degree (from your home country) with a national police check to match (also with an apostille). |
Apostillised degrees mean diddly squat to be honest. The only thing an apostillisation proves is that the copy is a true and real copy of the original: doesn't mean the original is legit.
I've had foreign docs apostillised in the US: they had no way of knowing if those docs were real or not.
You could still get a fake degree and get it apostillised. No problem.
Now, getting degree authenticated by your university: that's a whole different story. |
Point was that as people found ways to beat the hoops they added more hoops to jump through.
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| bharrell wrote: |
| Well, if I had been preparing a document of some importance, I likely would have noticed the capitalization of university... |
No, you should've known better than to make that mistake in the first place. It takes conscious effort To Capitalize Words unless you habitually type University of Someplace which I'd have expected you to attribute to the mistake.
| bharrell wrote: |
| To the best I can determine, Imply is perfectly appropriate... |
Agreed. So then why did you use inferring ?
| bharrell wrote: |
| A college master's degree is worth $1.3 million more in lifetime earnings than a high school diploma. |
Tell that to the un(der)employed Occupiers that were told a college degree was their only option for gainful employment as good paying unionized and manufacturing jobs all but disappeared. Did guidance counselors forget to tell them "Even if you can't find a job after graduation, a degree--any degree--grants you the privilege of earning hundreds of thousands teaching English overseas!" ?
| bharrell wrote: |
| The guy with no degree is swimming upstream. He might be the best teacher in the world, but not having a degree is a liability. Better to have one than not. |
Agreed. But I'm not the first to suggest that the educational establishment has long ceased to serve either the student or society as much as it serves itself. I'd argue it's a greater liability for organizations/society when they choose not to reward individuals for merit.
Please bharrell, don't take offence and don't misconstrue the above statement to mean that I think education doesn't serve students or society. It's actually passion for education which is behind my criticism of its shortcomings. You may want to read Ivan Illich's Deschooling Society or other works where he blames the nature of institutions for these failings rather than an individuals.
Two years ago, I returned to university to do a 1yr B.Ed. I had outstanding professors--all but one of them. However programs such as the one I was in have expanded far beyond the number of job vacancies. Furthermore, graduates feel that to maintain a competitive edge in the labor market upon graduation, they must take additional courses. Now do you see my point?
I actually want to thank you for helping me articulate such criticism which I began in another thread. Perhaps you've read it:
ELT Publishers, Academia & Us - disparate worlds? I'll posted a link there to this one as well. |
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bharrell
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:23 am Post subject: |
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I must admit that I have been waiting all day to see LongsiDong would have to say. As an advocate against higher education you have enough experience fighting standard reasoning to take on some other equally valid positions: Why eunuchs make the best lovers, the benefits of cancer, etc. I am sure there are obscure documents published somewhere that will support these viewpoints.
Actually there are minority viewpoints for any issue. So, it is okay what others choose to believe. I think it is just making life tougher for yourself going into a field that generally requires an education without one.
It is possible to make quite good money overseas, if you have an advanced degree. Tired of talking about it. Time for class. Do what you want. |
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bharrell
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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I must admit that I have been waiting all day to see LongsiDong would have to say. As an advocate against higher education you have enough experience fighting standard reasoning to take on some other equally valid positions: Why eunuchs make the best lovers, the benefits of cancer, etc. I am sure there are obscure documents published somewhere that will support these viewpoints.
Actually there are minority viewpoints for any issue. So, it is okay what others choose to believe. I think it is just making life tougher for yourself going into a field that generally requires an education without one.
It is possible to make quite good money overseas, if you have an advanced degree. Tired of talking about it. Time for class. Do what you want. |
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:04 am Post subject: |
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I'm not advocating anything. I'm merely arguing what any 20-something will tell you: a university degree no longer has the prestige/value it once had when everyone has/needs one and universities under budget constraints lower the bar for undergrad programs--this is a documented fact. Want proof?
As for me personally, I actually have a degree and was working toward a 2nd last year--a B.Ed. I also have a TEFL cert and am currently considering getting a DELTA or CELTA. That must really throw you off, huh? |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:21 am Post subject: erm |
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I don't have an MA in TESOL and Applied Linguistics and I will never do one. It's a complete load of tosh that you need it to 'teach' anywhere. It's also a complete waste of money. Teachers need experience and basic guidance early on. After that, anyone with half a brain cell can do this job.
Sadly, employers require it. If only they knew.
I earn the petro-dollar without one.  |
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bharrell
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| It doesn't surprise me that you are doing any of those things. Saying one thing and doing the opposite sounds about right. I think you just like to argue and/or abuse people. You don't sound too happy. Good day to you sir. |
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artemisia
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Denim-Maniac wrote: |
| For the OP - as everyone else says. Do the degree. I had to do the same thing and was lucky enough to have the right kind of job in China that a) employed me without a degree, and b) offered my lots of free time to actually study. |
cb400: As the above poster suggests, China might offer an option to work without a degree, although I realise it won�t be legal. You mentioned that China was the only country that gave you more positive responses and it would be a place to continue building your management experience. It could be worth it to you to take something at a much lower level than you�ve been used to if the payoff were low hours with time to study for a degree online. Alternatively, returning home to complete a degree full-time is the other obvious option, but probably prohibitively expensive and time consuming. Some people do go onto a Masters if they have sufficient industry experience to side-step a BA, but visa requirements mostly concern undergrad degrees so it may not be a solution.
An undergraduate degree is seen as a standard level of education now for so many things that to be without one is usually a great disadvantage, unless you�re planning on retraining in something else like plumbing, or perhaps starting a business. Your post is not specifically about the problem of the lack of a degree; in fact you mention being told you�re 'over experienced'. However, because of the way the way the lack of one limits you in so many places, it�s an unavoidable issue.
I�d second haleynicole14�s suggestion to rework your CV while you�re deciding on your next move. You might need a few different kinds: one for teaching, one for a focus on management etc. You might also consider trying to target a specific industry like business English, young learners or IELTS preparation. Do you have the possibility of building up private students, perhaps in conjunction with part-time work, to tide you over for a while? |
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