Job Discussion Forums

Uncle Gweilo · Joined: 08 Jan 2012 Posts: 10

I sent ICR a letter of applicaion the other day. Remains to be seen if they reply.

SydGirl2 · Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 50

When I worked for ICR there was no issue of pay-it was paid into a bank account. As other posters have said it isn't a job for everyone. For a while it was a revolving door with people coming and going. If you are unsure how you will fare then share a flat or condo. One of my colleagues lived in a hostel for a while, so you don't necessarily need to outlay huge wads of cash to start up apart from the airfare to get there. Some branches of ICR were better to work for than others. Mine was OK. I quite liked the job as there was very little preparation involved. At the end of the day it was all about making money for the company. My biggest beef about the job was being expected to teach 3 and 4 year olds to read at 7 o'clock at night. The classes were 90mins long and it was frowned upon if you had a toilet break halfway through the session. Almost child abuse.

Uncle Gweilo · Joined: 08 Jan 2012 Posts: 10

Hi SydGirl,

Thanks for the reply on this.

What hours and shifts did you do at ICR? There are reports in here of teachers getting ruung up and dragged in to the school on their days off to do student assessments and the like. How much of a regular working week was engaged in noon-teaching activities?

If you could give us an outline of what you did in an average week, that would be greatly appreciated. Froom what I understand ICR is a system of franchised schools, so one school could be quite different from another.

SydGirl2 · Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 50

I generally worked 3.30-8.30 during the week, 9-5.30 Saturdays(hated that!) 10.30-5.00 Sundays. 2 consecutive weekdays off. Some branches worked slightly different hours. Didn't really have to do much out of hours. Technically was on call but very rarely called in-maybe had to go in half an hour early to do testing/assessment of new/prospective students. Some franchises were better to work for than others. At the end of the day it was all about making money for the company.

Uncle Gweilo · Joined: 08 Jan 2012 Posts: 10

And thanks for this, too.

There are too many tales of woe of teachers getting given the run-around and being "abused" by schools in Singapore, so there has to be at least a kernel of truth. The schools in Singapore- general schools, not ESL schools- always had a pretty rotten reputation for "exploiting" their ESL teachers and offering minimum wage (currently of the order of SGD 3,500 a month with no accommodation allowance) only seemed to add insult to injury.

I try to look at those sorts of reports with an unbiased eye. Sure, schools may take advantage and expect more than what is stated in the initial job offer, but there surely has to be more than just a few people out there who expect to get as much as possible for the least amount of effort. And it's usually those who feel they've been done over who are the ones to complain on forums such as this. You rarely see someone getting online to start a thread about how good this or that school is. (And even when they do it can get taken as being self promotion by the school itself.)

I've got enough experience through my contacts to realise that just about anyone in Singapore who has to work for a living invariably puts in more effort than one would expect for a similar position than someone, say, here in Australia.

My interest in ICL is almost academic now. I've posted off two job applications just in order to get a face-to-face with the school hierarchy and have received no response to either. The thought of SGD 5,500 a month after the qualifying period must be more tempting than I imagined. When you stack it up against IDR 8 to 11 million offered by EF and other schools in Indonesia and the RMB 5,000 to 10,000 for schools in China, it's quite a decent wage. Not as good as Japan or South Korea, but Singapore is a lot more westerner friendly.

Your work roster looks quite decent to me. Weekends are not sacred as far as I'm concerned, and it doesn't really matter in Singapore at any rate. Having two weekdays off means less crowds. An 8:30 p.m. finish must be tough on littlies, but you see plenty of kids out and about with their parents at that time of night in Singapore, so it can't be that much of a drag for them otherwise there'd be a move to change the practice.

Thanks again,

Garry
a.k.a. Uncle Gweilo.

Spring88 · Joined: 24 Feb 2012 Posts: 7 Location: Daegu, South Korea

Uncle Gweilo,

you state that you will be paid S$5500 per month at ICR after your probation period. As I understand it that is not correct, you will be paid S$4500.

S$3500 (salary) + S$500 (allowance first 3 months) = S$4000

S$3500 (salary) + S$1000 (allowance after your probation time) = S$4500

They only 'up' your housing allowance to S$1000.

Please correct me if i have it wrong Smile

Uncle Gweilo · Joined: 08 Jan 2012 Posts: 10

I even c-&-p'd the remuneration section from their ad. Embarassed

It is SGD 4,500 as a total package after the probationary period.

ICR opened a school in Georgetown, Penang and I think the package there is MYR 5,500. Bigger number, but smaller amount when you convert it to AUD/GBP/EUR/USD. Actually, you could probably live a lot better on the Malaysian salary in Malaysia than you could the Singaporean salary in Singapore.

Taxation is comparatively low in Singapore. From singaporeexpats.com :

creeper1 · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: kook

They are in Beijing now as well. Would I be crazy to work with them? 6 day week, no z-visa. Penalties for being late for class or absent.

Krakatoa · Joined: 24 Mar 2006 Posts: 90

No Z-Visa? That is unlawful for a start unless the Chinese authorities have
relaxed the rules. This is also if you have to get that Z-Visa yourself at your own cost! Is it worth it?

When I was in China one had to have a Z-Visa to get a work permit. No permit = trouble and possibly an order to get out of China with an explicit warning never to try and get back in even with a tourist visa! This doesn't mention a fine for yourself and especially your employer. Are such problems worth it?

People had to leave the country and get the approved Z-Visa and then re-enter China at their own cost. Is it worth it? Caveat Emptor!

I had to have that Z-Visa to get into the country and a medical exam. Those medical forms were issued from the Chinese Embassy and they had to be filled out be an authorised medical practioner at an approved centre. Is it worth it? Caveat Emptor!

These forms along with other forms you filled out for that visa had to be submitted to that Chinese Embassy with the approved sum of money for processing of papers.

Six days a week? Not very healthy! What are the hours? No doubt weekends are there?

What about accommodation? Do they provide accommodation? If so what sort is it? Is it amongst the lowlives? How much is the accommodation? What about utilities? Do they provide some sort of allowance for this accommodation? What about cooking facilities including pots and pans? What about bedding? Does the landlord / lady provide the nice things while you rent their apartment? Is it worth it?

Penalities: What sort of penalities do they issue? How long will it be when they sack you? What about medical? Do they have some sort of medical allowance / insurance? Is it worth it? Caveat Emptor!

This organisation is getting more cheap skate every post. Caveat Emptor!

Six and a half years since I posted my first warning on this nasty organisation and not one positive post in reply. That must tell all and sundry that it should be avoided or at least proceed with caution.

Caveat Emptor!

creeper1 · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:22 am Post subject:

They offer help with obtaining an F-visa. The teachers there currently tell me they haven't had any problems working on this visa. And yes all the costs associated with getting that visa would be on my own dime.

Salary is 10,000 yuan with no housing provided but I could probably get an apartment for 3,000 yuan a month.

The hours are like 9- 4.30 Sat and Sun with short hours 5pm - 8pm during the week. One day I would get off.

The hours are actually not bad and I would probably be able to pick up extra work with those.

The place itself looks good. Lots of colours, interactive whiteboard and toys for the kids.

slayer6719 · Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:32 am Post subject:

Don't work in Bei Jing on a dodgy visa.
If you have a degree, you will do better.

doogsville · Joined: 17 Nov 2011 Posts: 924 Location: China

That's a terrible deal. You'll be working illegally, and they obviously don't have a licence to employ foreigners since you would be working on an F visa. The money is a joke. 10k would be okay if they provided housing, but no way would I work in Beijing for that and have to pay my own housing costs. Any company worth a dime would provide proper papers at their expense. Also those hours are not good at all. They are if anything longer than most language mills. I used to work all day on the weekends, but would do at the most three two hour classes on weekday evenings, certainly not weekends and then four week nights.

Avoid it at all costs. I still don't get why people take these dodgy jobs when with a little more patience and persistence anyone can find a job that while not perfect, is at least tolerable, and perhaps more importantly, legal.