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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| JerkyBoy wrote: |
| Sheikennotstirred wrote: |
| I've never heard of any Westerner being spat at or had rocks thrown at them in the Kingdom, ever, anywhere. |
I've never been to Saudi Arabia. I just thought I'd add to the general mood of hysteria in this thread. |
I'd say that your making your post with that claim qualifies you to be called accurately... a troll.
VS |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear EricCC,
How you're treated will, in some measure (and speaking very generally) depend on where you are. Saudis on the coasts tend to be more accepting rather than xenophobic (I spent four years in Jeddah). In Riyadh, that changes - but it's still mostly accepting (I spent 15 years there). I've never lived/worked in, say, Buraidah (although I've been there), but I think most who have would agree that the level of xenophobia there is certainly higher than in Jeddah or Riyadh.
And, of course, much will depend, as well, on "current events", especially those that take place in or affect the Middle East. When we kicked Saddam out of Kuwait, we were (again, speaking generally) heroes; when we invaded Iraq, we were (ditto) villains.
Regards,
John |
Of course I can only go by my own experience, but I am not so sure that any negative current events directly translated into any real open hostilities on the street against westerners. Not to my knowledge, I do not recall anything major that was news worthy. I am sure someone, somewhere has probably had some altercation with the locals, I am not saying it has never happened...but it has never personally happened to me nor have I wittnessed any such thing.
When these negative events are splashed all over the media, I think it has more to do with our own western perception of the locals on the street...that 'they" must be hostile toward us or perhaps they must be thinking hostile thoughts, but I did not see or encounter any actual aggression on the streets due to the negative current events....I was living in Abha when 9/11 happened and later when I moved to Riyadh and the subsequent terrorist activities occurred, the hysteria and paranoia was rampant, but mostly it was an invisable boogey man that the average western Joe on the street feared. During that time, life went on as usual and nothing really changed on the streets. Except there were plenty of barricades and barriers set up and more military presence which probably added to peoples' fears.
Therefore my point is that even in these uncertain times, it is my belief that most local people especially in the larger cities do not really care all that much about a few westerners on the street, but are more concerned about their own families and personal problems. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Dear cmp45,
Well, when we tossed Saddam out of Kuwait, a Saudi shopkeeper first asked if I was American, and then refused to take any money for my purchase (which, if I recall correctly, came to about 200 SR.)
When we invaded Iraq, I was, on three separate occasions, "aimed at" by drivers of three Toyota pick-ups (but heck. for all I know, it could have been the same guy each time) as I was walking to work. Oh, he/they didn't mean to hit me (he/they could have, easily), but he/they apparently felt the urge to make his/their disapproval manifest  .
Regards,
John |
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JerkyBoy
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| I'd say that your making your post with that claim qualifies you to be called accurately... a troll. |
You're either with us or against us! 
The Internet is having a weirding effect on humans. I have been watching grossly disturbing TV documentaries about trolls - those who hit tribute pages for dead children, etc.
Also the isolation and access to questionable material ...
You know the symptoms:
1) Obvious attention seeking
2) Awry sense of humour
3) Sniping at perceived intruders to their fiefdoms
I'd rather be known as a guttersnipe than a troll. |
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EricCC
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Grendal wrote: |
Stay in Korea.
Grendal |
Should I stay in Korea because I wrote two sentences? |
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EricCC
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| cmp45 wrote: |
| JerkyBoy wrote: |
| You come here at your own peril. If you wish to be spat at in the street and pelted with stones, be my guest. |
yeah jerkyboy knows all about life in KSA.  If I recall he was still waiting for his business visa and has yet to set foot in KSA. If I am wrong please do inform us all.
People out and about are too busy absorbed in their own problems to give a rats a** about you. Welcome to the big city of Riyadh |
Thanks for the feedback. There seems to be many people, like yourself, who give pretty honest (and no so negative) feedback about the county.
Do you think a person would be happier in the larger cities? Im not really looking for "action." Just areas where people are more accustomed to seeing expats. |
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EricCC
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the insights.
I wonder, is the expat teaching community rather large in the cities? Are the workforces at the instituted stocked with westerners?
I've been in Korea for three years. I'm currently working at a University that keeps me pretty isolated from other westerners. I think I could look forward to working with dozens of westerners who are 30 or older (like myself) . . . perhaps living in the same complex with other westerners . . . perhaps grabbing a bite to eat from time to time.
I'm leaning towards the coasts / larger cities. I've been told to apply to universities that require MAs (I'll have my research project done by fall, when I'll start to apply). However, someone had suggested that I apply to a select few companies because of pay and working conditions.
I have the Rosetta Stone Language Program for Arabic learning. I wont have time to start until fall . . .giving me only 9-12 months to study part time. I only expect to speak some basic phrases by the time I arrive, but I think I could have a better appreciation for the language.
Some of you mention being in the Kingdom for really long periods of time. Decades even. I take this to mean that live (or income earned) cannot be that bad. I think the experience of living in the ME could prove to be very good for me in many regards.
Most of the comments I've received have been most helpful. We'll ignore those with little to say. |
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strangerthanparadise
Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 35
Location: uk
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| i guess the only one who is hysterical is you my boy, jerk(y) |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| EricCC wrote: |
| cmp45 wrote: |
| JerkyBoy wrote: |
| You come here at your own peril. If you wish to be spat at in the street and pelted with stones, be my guest. |
yeah jerkyboy knows all about life in KSA. If I recall he was still waiting for his business visa and has yet to set foot in KSA. If I am wrong please do inform us all.
People out and about are too busy absorbed in their own problems to give a rats a** about you. Welcome to the big city of Riyadh |
Thanks for the feedback. There seems to be many people, like yourself, who give pretty honest (and no so negative) feedback about the county.
Do you think a person would be happier in the larger cities? Im not really looking for "action." Just areas where people are more accustomed to seeing expats. |
Yes of course, the larger the city the more expats you will find, more so than if you were in smaller remote areas. Thus it goes without saying the larger the city the more familiar locals will be with expats and westerners. In addition, the larger the city the more activities, shops....
For your first job in the ME, I would advise you to seek out jobs in the more moderate Gulf countries: Oman, UAE, Qatar, even possibly Yemen, Egypt(although may not be safe at the moment?) After a year or so, if you still want to try KSA, then at least you will be sensitized somewhat to the general Arab mentality and Gulf lifestyle, work ethics etc.
In general, Saudi Arabia is more suitable for experienced "mature" self reliant men and women; whereas the other Gulf countries are more suitable for younger ones that will be needing/ wanting more________________(you fill in the blank).
Last edited by cmp45 on Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| EricCC wrote: |
| Do you think a person would be happier in the larger cities? Im not really looking for "action." Just areas where people are more accustomed to seeing expats. |
There are plenty of expats in KSA from Asia, Africa, Europe, the Americas, as well as other parts of the Middle East. Not sure if that fits your idea of the expats you expect to encounter. |
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EricCC
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| EricCC wrote: |
| Do you think a person would be happier in the larger cities? Im not really looking for "action." Just areas where people are more accustomed to seeing expats. |
There are plenty of expats in KSA from Asia, Africa, Europe, the Americas, as well as other parts of the Middle East. Not sure if that fits your idea of the expats you expect to encounter. |
Yes, I think your comment is helpful. There are some of you on this thread that are giving me a rather positive view of the situation in the Kingdom (but also realistic).
I'm with my current university through summer session 2013. I'm looking to make a move to someplace new where I can save money, experience a different culture, and not be cold in the winter. I think the ME is looking pretty good to me right now.
Eric |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear cmp45,
Well, when we tossed Saddam out of Kuwait, a Saudi shopkeeper first asked if I was American, and then refused to take any money for my purchase (which, if I recall correctly, came to about 200 SR.)
When we invaded Iraq, I was, on three separate occasions, "aimed at" by drivers of three Toyota pick-ups (but heck. for all I know, it could have been the same guy each time) as I was walking to work. Oh, he/they didn't mean to hit me (he/they could have, easily), but he/they apparently felt the urge to make his/their disapproval manifest .
Regards,
John |
Yes these types of situations are unfortunate, and more akin to random stupidity and could happen at any time, but honestly in the 19 or so years you spent in KSA, if this is the worst that you encountered (even during times of unrest) then I'd have to say that life in KSA is not as terrible or threatening as some people like to believe. Am I right or am I wrong... |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| EricCC wrote: |
| I'm with my current university through summer session 2013. I'm looking to make a move to someplace new where I can save money, experience a different culture, and not be cold in the winter. I think the ME is looking pretty good to me right now. |
Yes, you'd certainly experience a different culture---one that's ultra-conservative. Something you'll need to keep in mind. Anyway, Expat Arrivals is a good site for basic info on KSA and other worldly destinations (http://www.expatarrivals.com/). |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Dear cmp45,
You seem unusually contentious - I mentioned that current events could affect how Westerners are treated in Saudi, but you (more or less) denied it.
I gave you a couple of examples from my personal experience, but you made it sound as though I was saying that "life is terrible there."
Hey, I was there for nineteen years - if I thought life was "terrible" there, then I must be the world's biggest masochist.
I think, though, that you weren't being realistic when you wrote this:
"I am not so sure that any negative current events directly translated into any real open hostilities on the street against westerners."
Regards,
John |
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JerkyBoy
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 485
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| strangerthanparadise wrote: |
| i guess the only one who is hysterical is you my boy, jerk(y) |
Eric, stay away from cinemas showing Western films. For whatever reason, the suicide bombers always tend to target these. |
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