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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Mike_2007,
OK, got me there . Did you google? And now, a sentence starting with "Than", please.
Regards,
John |
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Mike_2007
Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 349 Location: Bucharest, Romania
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Dear John,
Of course I Googled I came up with a few of my own initially, but I thought I'd see if the constructions were used in written texts so search a couple of newspapers.
I'm stuck on than, though. I thought perhaps we could start a sentence along the lines of 'than this there is but...', but it sounds very pompous and Byronesque and I suppose is prepositional rather than conjunctional. Isn't there some kind of Norse god called Than? 'Than raised his powerful hammer and smited the Danes'? Ok, I give up. Than my best efforts to you more I cannot offer.
Mike |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 738
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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'Than raised his powerful hammer and smited the Danes'? Ok, I give up. Than my best efforts to you more I cannot offer.
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I think Mike has a promising future in writing ahead of him! (So much better than having a promising future behind him.)
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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Mike_2007,
Smote, I think . I'm glad to see that you're not taking this any more seriously than I am. It's a very complex subject and there's no need to compound it by heated argument. Perhaps there's no simple answer. .
As far as gods go (and often they go way too far) there is Thanatos, the god of Death. To his friends, he's simply Than - except, of course, that he HAS no friends.
Regards,
John |
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ryan1981

Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 8
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the feedback!
PC Parrot�s response gives me something tangible to work with, although I still can�t say I necessarily agree with the semantics of it.
It appears I might not be completely alone on this point.
Anyway� I guess I�ll just have to get over it. |
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scrog_420
Joined: 21 Dec 2009 Posts: 47 Location: State of Jefferson
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Grammar question for the linguists (conjunctions) |
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| ryan1981 wrote: |
I speak English, for I�m an English man.
I speak English, as I�m an English man.
I speak English, because I�m an English man.
I don't speak English, though I'm an English man. |
For is indeed an archaic coordinating conjunction, which is why you cannot reverse the clauses (though good writers will boldly start a sentence with and or but).
But because as, because and though are subordinating conjunctions, it is possible to reverse the clauses.
And you've got your punctuation wrong. Commas are necessary only when the dependent clause precedes the independent clause:
I speak English as I�m an English man.
I speak English because I�m an English man.
I don't speak English though I'm an English man.
but
As I�m an English man, I speak English.
Because I�m an English man, I speak English.
Though I'm an American, I know a bit about English grammar.
And isn't Englishman one word? |
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The Mad Hatter
Joined: 16 May 2010 Posts: 165
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Forget conjunctions, one idea one sentence.
I can't believe I'm reading self-proclaimed experts littering their posts with little yellow faces.
If you can't make your point using the tools provided by the English language, how, in God's name, do you expect anyone to take you seriously? |
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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Dear The Mad Hatter,
"Forget conjunctions, one idea one sentence. "
Actually, that's two ideas.
"I can't believe I'm reading self-proclaimed experts littering their posts with little yellow faces."
Racist remarks are discouraged on these forums.
"If you can't make your point using the tools provided by the English language, how, in God's name, do you expect anyone to take you seriously?"
"I'm glad to see that you're not taking this any more seriously than I am"
Are you serious?
Regards,
John |
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The Mad Hatter
Joined: 16 May 2010 Posts: 165
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, now I get it.
I've just looked at your number of posts.
You're the village one. |
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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:00 am Post subject: |
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Dear The Mad Hatter,
Yup, these days jobs are hard to find, so I'm the village idiot. Someday, I aspire to attain your lofty position: world idiot. But I know I've got a long way to go .
Regards
John |
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scrog_420
Joined: 21 Dec 2009 Posts: 47 Location: State of Jefferson
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Yet another interesting thread devolves into juvenile babbling. |
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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Dear scrog_420,
What can you do? There are simply too many idiots around.
Regards,
John |
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ryan1981

Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 8
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: |
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scrog_420,
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| And you've got your punctuation wrong. Commas are necessary only when the dependent clause precedes the independent clause |
I don�t recall saying they were necessary.
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| I don't speak English though I'm an English man. |
Actually, it is quite common to use a comma before the dependent clause to emphasize contrast.
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| And isn't Englishman one word? |
I guess Englishman would be preferable here, but are you suggesting that English can�t be used as an adjective?
You do realize you added very little in the way of new information while still managing to come across as rather pompous and pedantic? |
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antonia v
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 49
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually, it is quite common to use a comma before the dependent clause to emphasize contrast. |
"Emphasize contrast"? You just made that up, didn't you. Common is not the same as correct. It's hard to admit that you are wrong, isn't it? A lot easier to accuse those who point out that you're wrong of being "pompous and pedantic". But you are wrong and scrog is right.
Dave's is full of pronouncements such as this by supposed teachers who haven't got a clue--they just make stuff up. |
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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Dear antonia v,
I wouldn't say "it's common", but I would say it's "not uncommon". I've certainly come across it in my reading fairly frequently.
My opinion is that while the comma after an introductory adverb dependent clause is "mandatory", using a comma before a closing adverb dependent clause is a matter of writer's choice (i.e. does the writer want the reader to take a very slight pause before continuing to read).
"The correct punctuation is either He does well in English although he prefers math to English (no comma at all) or He does well in English, although he prefers math to English (comma between the independent clause and the dependent clause but still no comma after although. (This is an example of an instance in which we have an option whether to set off the closing dependent clause with a comma. If we want to give a little more emphasis to the contrast expressed by the although clause, we may opt for using the comma.)"
http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/articles/article/2569239/36239.htm
Regards,
John |
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