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How "terrible" is life in the Kingdom
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

posh wrote:
cmp45 wrote:
I see you deleted your snide comment...hmmm ?


In what way is 'LOL" a snide comment?

I've no idea why it was deleted but it wasn't by me. Wink


Rolling Eyes Cool
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Sheikennotstirred



Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulgogiboy wrote:
Sheikennotstirred wrote:
I don't find life terrible here at all. But then I am single, white, and male, all advantages, and I have my own car. I get paid on time, not top end of the pay scale by Saudi standards but it's enough not to have to worry about money at all while I am here. I eat out all the time, get away to Bahrain, Qatar or the UAE when I need a break, I take 2-3 good vacations (Asia and Europe mostly) a year, and still save a sizeable portion, more than friends back in the States who, on paper, "earn" twice as much as I do.

Then again, I don't have major family ties back home, and I have a job that works us reasonable hours (15-20 contact hours a week max, often less, good breaks) and an employer who pays us on time and (by the standards of the region) doesn't take us for a ride. Take any of these out of the equation and life could be very different.


The people with the real advantage in Saudi are male, rich and Saudi (doesn't matter if they are married or single). They're the ones who can spend their weekends in western Europe, away from the nightmarish oppression of KSA, drinking vintage wine and enjoying the fleeting pleasures of libertarian sin. Laughing

Seriously, life in Saudi is to be tolerated, at best, rather than enjoyed. If you can tolerate living in Saudi for a year, good on you.


Really? I quite enjoy life here, which is why I stay. I wouldn't be here just to "tolerate" my existence, I'm not that desperate.

Then again, maybe that's why I can enjoy myself here... the fact that I have options and could leave any time I wanted or needed.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everybody uses their own experience of Saudi to make general statements. And that just won't work. Everybody's different, and even just two people, working for the same outfit, can have diametrically opposed reactions.

If you have a good employer, enjoy your work, don't have any "illegal addictions", and are an individual who is unusually self-contained and doesn't have much need for outside diversions, Saudi can be actually pleasant, most of the time.

But if any or all of the above aren't applicable, well, then life in Saudi can range from tolerable, at best, to downright "terrible."

Regards,
John
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strangerthanparadise



Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 35
Location: uk

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

exactly john, i totally agree, life here is what you make of it. my employer is not bad at all(not fantastic either) but i have a good rapport with my students, enjoy being in the classroom (i am here for them, not the other way round), i do not miss the booze and other diversions as you call them. i enjoy books, music and movies and my own company and stay far away from those pathetic twats who seem to enjoy having a bad time. let them. i don't give a flying f**k as to how they mess up the quality of their existence.
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EricCC



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is all sounding really good. I'd just assume be away from the drink and other silly things and spend more time on study, exercise, and NOT BEING COLD in the winter.

Thanks to the above two posts.

Eric
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CamTam



Joined: 05 Jan 2012
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear OP,

It does get cold in winter in Saudi Arabia. In fact, sometimes, it dips below zero in some cities. Yesterday, there was a thunderstorm and it rained all evening. The air smells nice and fresh after it rains.

I don't want you to get the impression that this country is hot and arid all the time. Do bring an umbrella and a warm coat if you do come here as you seem to have decided.

As for whether or not it is "terrible," I can only tell you that more people are unhappy here than happy. I work with the women only as there is a complete separation of the sexes at the universities. Some of my colleagues have run away in the middle of the night after receiving their paycheck. It is a hard life for single women here, so making friends is important. Most of my colleagues are kind and helpful.

John is right. Saudi Arabia doesn't have to be "terrible."

Most of the people who live in Saudi Arabia really are too busy minding their own business to care about anybody else's business. I am bothered sometimes by the men, but that is because I am a woman who is all alone here.

I read that one of the posters wanted to use his experience in Cairo as some kind of parallel to Saudi Arabia. I had to laugh. Saudi Arabia is nothing like Cairo. I am almost tempted to say Saudi Arabia is like no place on Earth. I can't really explain it, but it isn't like the other GCC countries either. You'll have to come here to see for yourself what I mean.

I wish you the best of luck. You do seem to have what it takes to be here.

CamTam
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CamTam wrote:
Dear OP,

It does get cold in winter in Saudi Arabia. In fact, sometimes, it dips below zero in some cities. Yesterday, there was a thunderstorm and it rained all evening. The air smells nice and fresh after it rains.

I don't want you to get the impression that this country is hot and arid all the time. Do bring an umbrella and a warm coat if you do come here as you seem to have decided.

As for whether or not it is "terrible," I can only tell you that more people are unhappy here than happy. I work with the women only as there is a complete separation of the sexes at the universities. Some of my colleagues have run away in the middle of the night after receiving their paycheck. It is a hard life for single women here, so making friends is important. Most of my colleagues are kind and helpful.

John is right. Saudi Arabia doesn't have to be "terrible."

Most of the people who live in Saudi Arabia really are too busy minding their own business to care about anybody else's business. I am bothered sometimes by the men, but that is because I am a woman who is all alone here.

I read that one of the posters wanted to use his experience in Cairo as some kind of parallel to Saudi Arabia. I had to laugh. Saudi Arabia is nothing like Cairo. I am almost tempted to say Saudi Arabia is like no place on Earth. I can't really explain it, but it isn't like the other GCC countries either. You'll have to come here to see for yourself what I mean.

I wish you the best of luck. You do seem to have what it takes to be here.

CamTam


I wish it rained more often as the air quality can be quite bad due to the dust and sand.

It rained 'more' in Abha, but Riyadh? It really doesn't rain all that much anywhere in KSA to warrant packing an umbrella. You can buy one here, if you feel it to be an absoulte necessity, but in my estimate, it would be wasted space in your luggage.
As for bringing a warm coat...again would have to say wasted space in your luggage...a light coat would suffice and maybe a light sweater. I supose it does depend on the region you are in. Even at zero, that's like a balmy spring day in some parts of Canada, where I've seen people out and about wearing shorts and a t-shirt in zero temps. Laughing Crazy canuks...But I supose after enduring 40 to 50+ temps here anything under 20 seems cold Rolling Eyes You can buy coats here too. Plus...if you bring everything with you, then you will deprive yourself of having something to do to occupy your free time...as shopping is the main entertainment... Laughing

I mostly feel bad about single western women living here...I personally would not recommend single women to come to KSA. It's a man's world over here and women must put up with an awful lot of BS at the whims of men. It's alot harder for women living in KSA than men in my estimate.

Well you are correct in saying KSA is like none other; the main differences between KSA and the other GCC countries are the restrictions on women and other various forms of entertainment.
KSA is strictly segregated, women will not be as free as men to do what they want when they want. They can not drive. There are no cinemas, no alcohol, no bars, no live music, no dancing, not much in the way of art galleries or social clubs. Although the Diplomatic Quarter in Riyadh is the place to go for cultural activities etc. If your up for that and actually have some connections. As depressing as it may sound, some people do create social and entertainment events, mostly private functions, but one has to be pro active to to find out about such goings on...

Mind you...as a first experience to the Gulf, it might be better to start with a more liberal country...but confess even after living in a more moderate GCC country, for some the contrast will still be quite stark.

Of course if you are a rebel with a cause, you can get around some of these restrictions and have an adventurous time avoiding the authorities :lol:It's been stated numerous times by different posters some more eloquently than others Cool ... that if you like/ want/ need to be able to frequent various places of 'entertainment' and indulge in 'vice' like you might in the 'west' or can not tolerate solitude for any length of time...then certainly KSA would not be a good fit.
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posh



Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 430

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somebody at the University of Hail has gone on hunger strike! Shocked

And salaries seem to be going down.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear posh,

The Hunger Games come to the Kingdom - and salaries are going down. On the other hand, being on a hunger strike is a sure way to save a fair amount on food costs. Very Happy

To survive in Saudi, one needs to develop (it one doesn't already have) a very dark sense of humor.

Regards,
John
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posh



Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 430

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehe Smile

... and become honorary members of the 500 club.
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bulgogiboy



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheikennotstirred wrote:
bulgogiboy wrote:
Sheikennotstirred wrote:
I don't find life terrible here at all. But then I am single, white, and male, all advantages, and I have my own car. I get paid on time, not top end of the pay scale by Saudi standards but it's enough not to have to worry about money at all while I am here. I eat out all the time, get away to Bahrain, Qatar or the UAE when I need a break, I take 2-3 good vacations (Asia and Europe mostly) a year, and still save a sizeable portion, more than friends back in the States who, on paper, "earn" twice as much as I do.

Then again, I don't have major family ties back home, and I have a job that works us reasonable hours (15-20 contact hours a week max, often less, good breaks) and an employer who pays us on time and (by the standards of the region) doesn't take us for a ride. Take any of these out of the equation and life could be very different.


The people with the real advantage in Saudi are male, rich and Saudi (doesn't matter if they are married or single). They're the ones who can spend their weekends in western Europe, away from the nightmarish oppression of KSA, drinking vintage wine and enjoying the fleeting pleasures of libertarian sin. Laughing

Seriously, life in Saudi is to be tolerated, at best, rather than enjoyed. If you can tolerate living in Saudi for a year, good on you.


Really? I quite enjoy life here, which is why I stay. I wouldn't be here just to "tolerate" my existence, I'm not that desperate.

Then again, maybe that's why I can enjoy myself here... the fact that I have options and could leave any time I wanted or needed.


I can appreciate that if you have a good employer (I certainly did NOT!), and you have a wife with you, or can live without the comfort of female companionship (I can't), then I'm sure Saudi Arabia can be more than tolerable. One of my current co-workers had a pretty good job in Saudi, living with his family on a proper western compound, and he didn't mind it. However, I think for most single, heterosexual men under a certain age, it's not a lifestyle that is sustainable in the long term. The best you can do is stay as long as you can bear it, save some money, then go elsewhere. The harshness of KSA is immediately obvious even when you move to one of the more liberal GCC countries. I'm currently in Qatar, and 'boring' Doha is like Las Vegas compared to the city I was in, in Saudi!

You make a good point, which is that you are able to leave any time you like. I really used to (and still do) feel sorry for the young lads I taught in Jazan, as most of them were poor, wastaless, had never been out of the kingdom, and would probably never get the chance to leave either. I felt like I was doing a short stint in a minimum security prison (no, I was never molested hehe), and they were all lifers.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: ksa Reply with quote

I look back with some nostalgia to 1996-2002 when, together with wife and daughters, I lived in the same accommodation as the 747 pilots on Saudia City in Khaledeya, Jeddah..

My daughter was not happy to leave the International American School and return to Europe in 2002 !
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battleshipb_b



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been living in the magic kingdom for around 20 years and it's not such a bad place. However, it's a man's world and unless you work for Aramco, it's not a good idea to bring wife and kids.
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EFLeducator



Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 595
Location: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
If you enjoy your work, don't have any "illegal addictions", and are an individual who is unusually self-contained and doesn't have much need for outside diversions, Saudi can be actually pleasant.


That's me to a T. Guess I will give SA a chance. I have no illegal addictions and I can be happy just working and going home to watch TV and read a few books.

SA sounds like it's right up my alley. Their streets aren't
filled with trash like certain other countries are they? If not, count me in.
Cool
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear EFLeducator,

It sounds like you have the right make-up for the job (but do you have a Master's? If not, the jobs that are available won't be all that attractive.)

The streets in Saudi are generally pretty clean - thanks to all those third-world workers. But the concept of not littering still hasn't been embraced by too many Saudis.

Regards,
John
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