Job Discussion Forums

[creeper1]

Shroob - You need 2 years to become a qualified teacher. One year for your PGCE and one as a student teacher at a school.

I am glad you are realistic enough to realise that you won't be getting a job in the UK anytime soon.

If you do manage to land an iternational school job then, yes, you will have moved up, way up, from your average ESLer.

The question is though, will you be able to land a job at an international school.

How competitive are they? The best ones I am sure are pretty tough to get into.

So two questions if anyone can answer.

- How competitive are international schools?

- Does ESL experience count as "experience" when talking about international schools?

[Denim-Maniac]

[spicykimchi]

Some friends were telling me how much Chinese people make. I'm not sure how accurate this list is.

Nurse - 4,000 RMB a month

Flight attendant - 5,000

Engineer - around 11,000 (I don't know what kind of engineer)

Police officer - in the 18,000 range

My friends were guessing that I make about 20,000 RMB. I've never heard of anyone getting that kind of pay for teaching adults, but I've heard you can make that much at an international school.

[theoriginalprankster]

Wow - I'm earning what the fuzz earns. But there are many ranks within the police and many 'perks' too..

[zootown]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[Opiate]

[Javelin of Radiance]

Instead of comparing apples to oranges (our wages with wages of locals) why not compare like with like. Probably more appropriate to compare the work we do here and the wage we earn here with the same kind of work and wages offered if the work was done in one's home country.

At our college here, Foreign teachers are required to hold a BA and have some experience. ESL teachers here earn anywhere from 6800-7600 for 14-16 hours a week. The only other expenses teachers have are utilities and food. Works out to about $18-20 per hour for what's basically a part time job (with benefits incl. housing). Our salaries here are a bit higher than average for a college but even at 5500-6000 per month most ESL teachers are not overworked or underpaid for their work. None of my colleagues here are broke at the end of the month either.

I'm going home next month and am currently doing some random online job hunting. In the ESL field there isn't any work in my hometown but there is in the next, more expensive city over which is about 70 miles away. The ESL job ads I've seen so far in that location require the same qualifications as here, at least a bachelor's degree and some experience. Most jobs are part time at $18-25 per hour with no benefits. You'd have to line up 2-3 of these jobs to make it past subsistence living there. There are some full time jobs available at $20-25 per hour with 20-30 hours per week (grossing you anywhere from $1600-3000 per month) but they generally aren't available to people without some sort of teaching credential. So plenty of work, but most of it piecemeal, lower end of the pay scale, and few or no benefits. From the limited research I've done here's how I see things unfolding if i go back home as an ESL teacher: I can earn anywhere from $1000-$3000 per month, but once I factor in income taxes, rent (that alone will be a minimum of $800 per month), and food I'm not going to have much left, if anything. I highly doubt I would come out ahead by teaching ESL at home as opposed to doing the same work here in China, which is why I'm looking for other work or training programs.

Anyway, Zero's right. I don't see how anyone can claim ESL teachers in China are underpaid or hard done by and actually believe it. To anyone who does believe foreign teachers are underpaid or undervalued, then please inform the rest of us why you think so.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Salaries in China vary just as much from place to place as they vary from country to country. These are not only salaries; these are total cash that they get per month, but not including other benefits such as food and housing or year-end bonus.

Waiter/Waitress

All typically get free meals and free shared housing and annual lump-sum bonus for staying a full year. They also receive extra money for upselling more beer or more side dishes, expensive drinks... etc. Waitresses can also act as eyes and ears for other people, and this can also affect their bottom line. This does not include any compensated dating that may occur and is pretty common.

Waitress: 900
Waiter: 1,800
Waiter: 1,800
Waitress: 2,000
Waitress: 3,000
Waitress: 6,000
Waitress: 10,000+

Teachers

Some of the lower-paid teachers might live in a dorm-setting (housing provided), with free meals. The ones with seniority can make a lot of extra money teaching private classes, tutoring a student one-on-one, receiving "grey" money so the teacher will pay more attention to the giver's child, "compensation" for passing students, etc. Teachers normally receive an end-of-year bonus around spring festival not included in the below numbers and this can be partially determined by performance and partially on how "helpful" the teacher was for the headmaster. This does not include gifts such as cars or furniture.

Teacher: 700 (free room/board, in deep countryside, carte blanche rein of school), usually this teacher has next to no qualifications
Teacher: 3,000
Teacher: 4,500
Teacher: 6,000
Teacher: 7,000
Teacher: 12,000
Teacher: over 20,000

Nurses

Benefits are enormous, from free medical for entire family, to decent pension, the ability to bump those waiting for surgery ahead, turning the other cheek when something happens in the hospital, drug company kickbacks, actually selling medicine... list is amazing. The higher up you are with more power, the more money one can make. I won't go into details how a public health nurse in an orphanage can make heaps of money.

Nurse: 3,000
Nurse: 5,000
Nurse: 8,000
Nurse: 12,000
Nurse: 40,000+

Taxi Drivers

The lowest on the ring are the ones who are renting a taxi from an owner. They pay a set fee to the owner, so these are typically the ones who race around and drive like maniacs because they want to be able to pay off their fee and also make money on top of that. At the top end are actual taxi owners who drive for 8 or 10 hours themselves and their spouse will also drive and they may even rent out their car at times when they want a holiday or time off.

Taxi Driver: 4,000
Taxi Driver: 6,000
Taxi Driver: 10,000
Taxi Driver: 14,000
Taxi Driver: over 20,000

Police

At the lowest end are new recruits. Some police do get bonuses, such as keeping an eye for certain people the top-brass are looking for, or bringing in their "leaders" enemies, or getting information that is useful for their leaders. Traffic cops can make decent money with the old "pay the fine at the station, or pay less to me now" routine. Higher-ups make loads of money, but we won't go into details here on how they make that money. Just think "legalized mafia" and leave it at that. This could be protection money, this could be turning the other cheek, ignoring reports of domestic violence.... anything that puts money into their hands.

Police: 4,500
Police: 6,000
Police: 10,000
Police: 15,000
Police: 20,000
Police: over 30,000

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[Ariadne]

Whiner, I think you are looking at the 'underpaid' question from a different angle than some of the other posters. I, for example, don't feel underpaid just because someone makes more money than I or because they make extra money because of my presence. Hey, I'm pretty sure the dean here gets a wad of cash whenever he trots out some FTs for a dinner or outing. I don't really care. I am not forced to attend these events, but sometimes I do and end up having a good time. He makes money... I have fun. Fine with me.

You mentioned that you are now running your own school. Does that mean you will be sticking around China for awhile longer?

.

[Denim-Maniac]

I would also agree that EFL China pays better than EFL UK. Ive posted that before and it is a real apples Vs apples scenario then.

Id disagree about some of Whiners points though, certainly in my limited experiences. I didnt see other teachers at either middle school or college driving fancy cars. If they did, it was normally a young pretty teacher who had the car...probably courtesy of the rich husband (or lovers).

Ditto for my situation in the private sector now. I know the Chinese teachers dont earn as much as we do, they have inferior accomodation, and pay for their own utilities. And they are the ones who have classes full of students, many of our FT classes (higher level) have few students. My boss is making more money from the instruction they provide rather than the instruction I do.

Our highest level class averages just two students. But the FT always receives the full salary when teaching that class. My boss certainly doesnt received much money from that level. Ditto for off peak times. There is no issue on us getting our full whack, even if the student intake is low.

I also recently tutored a TEFL course we offer. I know exactly how much the trainee paid (it was a 1-1 course BTW), and he also received free accomodation and utilities, and a series of 10 Chinese lessons in our sister school. I would guess I made 70% of the income from that course, perhaps a touch more.

And even if my math is seriously wrong...I dont think its too unusual for any boss in any industry to make money out of his staff!

[Javelin of Radiance]

[choudoufu]

[Javelin of Radiance]