Job Discussion Forums

[Nim Chimsky]

Hi Teachers

There have been a lot of questions on this forum about getting a management job in the EFL industry in Vietnam. But there has not been much discussion about this issue here. So I thought I would give you my opinion and hopefully others will add theirs to help teachers who want to climb the ladder.


The most important thing is qualifications.

One generally needs BA, CELTA or equivalent, Delta or MA in TEFL etc.

One of course needs experience teaching EFL/ESL.

One also needs experience in a supervisory position in the EFL industry,level leader,senior teacher, DOS, any kind of position where you have to manage teachers.

But there is always the catch 22 problem, got the quals bot no experience managing teachers. What do i do? Well most teachers get these positions by being promoted from within the organisation where they are teaching.
but there arent that many positions available so who do the dos etc select.
well they choose not the most competent, not the best teachers but the ones who will tow the line and not cause any problems. how do you convince them that you are that kind of person. From the minute you walk into the school, toss your values both ethical and moral out the window.
Then try to get into the so called in crowd-and of course find out who are the level leaders senior teacheers etc.

Now starts the most important aspect of climbing the ladder-kiss you know what, participate in anything you can in and out of the calssroom, school etc, never say anything negative about the school, be a cheerleader in the
teachers room, do not hang out with teachers who are not part of in crowd, try to hang out with the current supervisors outside of the school, bars, dont drink a lot of alcohol in front of them, restaurants etc, attend any and all workshops even though you know most of them are a waste of time and always lie to the workshop trainers that it was a great workshop and tell them that you now have more skills to use in the classroom. Always say how great vietnam is and the students. try to find out about the vietnamese staff, focus on the managers, and kiss their you know what. Oh dont forget to wear the fake smile all the time in and out of the school. you also should spend as much time as possible at the school, forget your life outside, always look busy and try to help other teachers with their lesson plans in front of the senior teachers etc. Also try to internalize the personalities of the current managers as your own. Also when you think that there is a teacher who just wants to do their job, is not in the in crowd, possibly a bad apple or a virus that will infect others, tell the senior teachers about this individual. Also if you see others who are trying to do the same thing that you are doing-backstab as much as poosible.

You are now ready to apply for the next senior teacher position, you know that its all been a lie, you cant sleep at night, but do you want to live in poverty your whole life- of course not-yes, you will need money to retire have a family etc.

You apply for the position and you get it-congratulations! But you are still at the bottom of the ladder, and you want to be at the top, do exactly the same thing that you did before but now you have differnt people to impress. Eventually you will get the next higher position and so on.

But a major problem will arise-its caleed the peters principle, you are now in a senior position but you have received no training in supervisory skills, leadership skills, financial training in writing budgets etc, etc.
No worries, you are at the top now and it doesn't really matter, you will eventually be dismissed because you cant do your job but as another poster stated-you can shuffle to another senior position with another school in Vietnam and that is exactly what happens.

How do I know this, its based on personal experience and observation.

Best of luck on climbing the TEFL ladder in Vietnam.

Apologise for grammar spelling mistakes etc, wrote it quickly.

Best regards

Nim Chimsky

[kurtz]

I thought the topic was a good one and could lead into an interesting discussion. Upon further reading, I can see it's full of bitterness and cynicism and I'm actually in pain after reading it.

How many years have you been here, dude? Time to go I think.

[Nim Chimsky]

Hi Kurtz

Thank you for the reply.

I apologise concerning the pain. Are you in pain because it reminded you of what you had to do to climb the ladder. Sorry about that.

I and others would appreciate it if you could give us your opinion on climbing the ladder.

I'm off to my local for some beers.

Best regards

Nim Chimsky

[ExpatLuke]

I think it's more likely that he was saying that it hurt him to see someone so jaded and embittered by their own experience in one company. I would ask you to support your ideas of what you think it takes to get to a management position, but I doubt you really have much to go by.

[1st Sgt Welsh]

Sorry double post .

[1st Sgt Welsh]

[skarper]

OP is right - if a little cynical.

I have felt like that myself sometimes. Then I looked at the job these managers do and realised I just didn't want the hassle, even for a lot more money than they actually get.

Frankly I don't know why anyone would want a senior EFL positiion in Vietnam (or many places for that matter.)

I suspect some of the people who've gone that route are just fed up with teaching full time and/or scared they will be unable to find work long term since they are mediocre or worse teachers.

Hence they take on the unpleasant taks of being the goon in charge.