Job Discussion Forums

[Josef K]

Having left my employer on less than happy terms, I have been involved in a protracted email war regarding my work visa/ residence permit.

The school's FAO wants me to accompany here to the PBS to cancel the 'work visa' (her terms). This request, with deadlines and threats to cancel the permit with or without my help, has continued for the past two weeks!

Her latest email uses the term 'residence permit' - I'm not exactly sure if she is using the terms interchangeably or if the school has become so miffed at my delaying tactics they are trying to get me kicked out of China.

I know that my work visa is tied to my employer and they have every right to cancel (and are required by law to do so) but I am holding out for a release letter and trying to find out if I need to leave the country or can stay until my permit expires in July.

Should I comply and accompany the FAO to the PBS?
Should I string them along for another week?
It seems that if they could have cancelled it without me they would have done so by now but each passing deadline brings a new demand and extension.
Of course I don't want to find my visa cancelled without my knowledge.

Any advice from those knowledgable or who have had a similar experience?

[Non Sequitur]

Do you have another employer lined up?
If so they can be a counterbalance to the vengeful ex employer.

[xiguagua]

Of course you want to avoid having a vengeful ex-employer at all costs. If you stop working they can cancel your RP even without you. I think the smart thing would to do is tell them that you are willing to go to the PSB to cancel it, but in the meantime you should find another job to get the Visa/RP stuff done asap and get the release letter before they cancel your RP.

When I left my school midcontract I was able to get the release letter, and I told them they can cancel my RP, but just wait a month to do it so I can secure a new job and get the visa. They had no problems with it and I was able to get everything done just fine.

Just letting them know that you are very willing to cooperate, you're just trying to get another job situated so you don't have to leave will prevent you from having to stall for weeks. Unless they hate your guts they should see that it's reasonable......but in the meantime, you should probably continue your classes until you've got the new visa sorted.

[Josef K]

Thanks for the replies, I have been looking for a new job and I keep getting asked if I have a release letter like it's the golden ticket for a tour of Willy Wonka's chocolate factory or something.

I think I will keep stalling until they give me the release letter

[coco1979]

I was under the impression they could only cancel your visa if they physically stamp the passport. Maybe this is why they are so keen to get their hands on yours.
I know of people who quit their job, but still stayed in China untill the end of their visa(the original visa) and had no problems in leaving the country.
I get the impression that being arrested at customs, jailed and fined etc are scare stories

[Opiate]

[Josef K]

Well it turns out that they were telling a bunch of fibs (fancy that!)

I contacted a visa agent (eastpoint in Fujian - highly recommend btw) and he contacted (presumably) the PSB and told me that they couldn't do much without my passport. They could press the PSB into action but would need solid reasons why (evidence of a crime or a threat to national security).

Leo at eastpoint told me that it was a common tactic for schools to ask/tell/ threaten teachers to go into the PSB where the teacher would unwittingly cancel his or her own residence permit saving the school the trouble.

My old school cancelled my work permit (easily done online) and reluctantly gave me a release letter, my residency card and health card (they regularly withhold the later two from teachers because I spied a draw full of them). All I need now is the recommendation form and my new employer will be able to get me a new work and residence permit.

So if you are transferring school or leaving mid contract make sure you get these documents to save your self a trip to H.K (the health certificate saves you money and the hassle of doing it again).
And never ever trust the blighters with your passport

[Rongbaozhai]

[Josef K]

Thanks dude, I can see that your comment is in keeping with the majority of your posts: snide, sarcastic asides that reveal your deep apathy to this board and anyone that expresses an opinion contrary to your own narrow vision of reality.

What business is it of yours why I left? Why do you even ask when you have no interest in the answer; rhetoric or just hoping I prove whatever point you are trying to make?

From your comments, it seems that you would support a school that lies, schemes and misleads its teachers, really? - congratulations, you just qualified for troll of the month

Just so you know, the school in question had promised me the very things I needed for a transfer if I went with them to the PSB only to rescind the offer when I wised up and began asking questions.

As you seem to be a dilettante here let me help you understand that this board is a medium for sharing, giving advice, critiquing commentary and furthering the experiences of teachers in China - do you have anything meaningful to add to the conversation?

[Miles Smiles]

Been there, done that.

I agree with xiguagua.

If your residence permit were canceled, it would have to be replaced with an "L" tourist visa whose expiration date would coincide with your departure date.

If the FAO were so hot to get rid of you, she'd demand your passport and take it to the PSB, then have an "L" visa placed in your passport to make it difficult for you to get another job. If you find another employer before she has the PSB place an "L" visa in your passport, you might be able to change employers and have them change the residence permit to their jurisdiction. I've never heard of the residence permit being canceled online. It is stamped if you leave early, and it is replaced with an "L" visa.

If you plan to stay in China, and don't mind staying in the same city or nearby, start looking for another employer ASAP. Language mills bend the rules quite frequently (mostly out of ignorance, I think), so make sure that the particular mill-- not its headquarters-- that you intend to move to has been in operation for at least thirteen months. (In Jiangsu, that's the magic number. That particular school must have been in business for at least thirteen months before it may hire foreign experts. There's probably more to the requirements for being able to hire foreign experts, but this is one that I know of that usually is the sticking point after you sign, and they find out that they can't get a residence permit). Your new school may be able to get your residence permit changed to correlate to your new location without requiring you to go to Hong Kong . You probably won't need a letter of release if you move to a non-public school such as a language mill.

My employment was canceled by mutual agreement. The school turned off the a/c in the summer, then turned off the heat in the winter during my last semester. The a/c was turned off right after I signed for my second year, and I was told that it was broken and would be fixed before my return. It came back on for the rest of the term, but when I returned to the states during the summer break, it was "broken" again. Same ol' same ol' with the heat.

I quit judging (or asking about) reasons why people leave schools. Life is too short to stay in poor conditions or to work with dishonest people. If the situation doesn't feel right, one should do his best to leave on the best possible terms. Sometimes the best possible isn't very good.

[dakelei]

In March or April of '09 I left a job in Shenzhen under "less than favorable" conditions. I kept the RP I had in my passport till December of that year and started at another school in another city but in the same province. When my school went to renew my RP there was a brief snag but I eventually got it. The school needs to physically have your passport in their hands to get an RP "cancelled." Of course we're talking 3 years ago and things may have changed. My experience has been that just about any problem can be worked around if your new school wants you badly enough and has even the slightest bit of "guanxi."

[kungfuman]

I was having dinner with a teacher who has worked at the same school for three years. He was relating some horror stories of past teachers. One of them quit coming to school to work and ignored the fao's request to come in with his passport so she could have the resident permit canceled.

the fao went to the psb and they said they couldn't do anything unless she brought them the passport or he came into the psb with the passport.

Several months went by and after the fao complained to the psb numerous times they finally agreed to go to his house.

He wouldn't open the door any of the times they came and they didn't knock it down. ( My guess was they didn't want to have to pay for the damage.)

Then one day the agreed to "stake out" his apartment and he came out and they grabbed him.

NO! they didn't arrest him, they forced him to come to the psb with his passport and canceled his resident permit and gave him an L visa for 30 days.

He refused to pay for it so the psb made the school pay the 1000 rmb.

So PERHAPS they do need your physical passport in their possession to do something.

[MNguy]

Pretty sure they do. After offering me 500 rmb for my passport, which I refused, they decided to with hold my pay until I was physically in the airport ready to leave the country.

[Miles Smiles]

If the PSB wants both the FT's presence AND his passport, there's a good chance that it doesn't trust the FAO because the FAO has a bad reputation. Been there, done that too. (Believe it or not, the PSB doesn't always cave in to requests by the FAO).

In the event of a cancellation of the RP, the PSB may want to be sure that the FAO isn't acting on his/her own without the the knowledge and consent of the FT. SAFEA contracts that I've read recently state that the contract may be canceled ONLY by mutual agreement of parties A and B. That helps to level the playing field, and it also keeps the PSB out of the fray as much as possible. By having both the FT and his passport present with the FAO, there's less chance that The FAO is pulling a fast one, though it doesn't really prevent coercion on the part of the FAO.

When contractual agreements are broken by FAOs and school management, I can't really blame any FT for not cooperating with either unless it benefits the FT to cooperate.

[Brian Hugh]

There is also the possibility that areas are only allowed a certain number of Resident permits. So for a school to get a new teacher they need to free up one. I agree the best position is to sit down and talk it out. Employers tend to call ex employers anyway. A release letter sometimes causes more headaches. Ya I've been there.