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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 972
Location: UK
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 Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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whatevs,
I have to agree with Sasha and Spiral on this.
Why do you feel you have to announce to the world your sexuality? I wouldn't dream of saying " My name's Paul and I'm heterosexual". Who cares? Just get on with your work and do a good job with your students.
Many people don't appreciate this "in-your-face" announcement about sexuality. This is not homophobia - just irritation. Please be discreet. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| whatevs wrote: |
China maybe. It's so big there has to be worlds within worlds there.
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Of course I cant speak for all of China, it is so big! But I do believe your sexuality, if revealed, might be a source of ridicule, fear and hostility rather than curiosity and acceptance. I work with a gay male, and whilst it isnt a problem with any of the foreign teaching staff he is careful to be discreet and secretive around the Chinese staff.
Sensitive awareness raising topics have backfired on him too. We teach adult students who relish topical discussion questions, but their reactions to homosexuality can be harsh sometimes. He took great offence at comments made by a class we share and took it far too personally, alienating a student before he made a formal request to change his teaching schedules and classes.
Im sure the bigger cities have a 'scene', but being associated with it could mean losing credibility. If you are uncomfortable being secretive Im not convinced that China would be a 'safe' and 'welcoming' destination. There are some gay posters on the Chinese forums though, it might be worth enquiring there. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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One of my colleagues in China is gay. Nobody asked if he was. He didn't tell anybody. No problem.
One of my students gave a talk about gay marriage. During the question and answer session, I told the students about Mexico City (for those unfamiliar with DF, gay marriage is legal and the lifestyle is out in the open). They were (for the most part) astounded, repulsed, flabbergasted....... All of the students were anti-gay marriage; nobody was particularly against the lifestyle, but it was very odd to them. |
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sparks
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 632
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| I can understand what your saying whatevs about revealing info to coworkers. If you are the kind of person who is naturally trusting and gregarious you may reveal personal info to you coworkers, or say something you later regret to them, or do something. I have done this numerous times over the years, it is very difficult to control. That being said, of course Spiral's advice is correct, if you worry about revealing too much it may be better to be a bit more standoffish towards your coworkers. Just avoid drinking and gabbing with them, keep your guard up, sometimes it's the best way. |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Maybe not directly related to OP's question, but thought I would throw it in......Regarding class sensitive topics on sexuality, religion and politics, you would be wise to inquire first if these topics are allowed before engaging students. If so, the teacher should remember that it really has more to do with how the students express themselves as oposed to the student's actual point of view on the topics. Unless the teacher is prepared to accept the student's opinion even if it is an outrageous point of view, then best not even attempt the topic in the first place.
In a debate situation, students should be allowed to practice speaking their opinion, since the aim is to engage the student and encourage the use of the target language. The teacher should be objective and not let his/ her personal view interfere in the process- in other words, the teacher really should remain neutral. It's not about you. The teacher is suposed to be the facillitator and has no business offering his / her opinion, but should be ready to assist, monitor and manage the student's engaging in the debate, learning to express themselves with the language they are learning. so....bottom line it's ...Not so much what they say, but how they say it.
No easy task to manage such debates as they can and do bring up very strong feelings and can turn ugly, if not managed and controlled.
In KSA these topics are forbidden where I work, so we try to engage students using less controversial topics...less exciting that's for sure 
In one class, we were discussing the environment and the issue of garbage and what they could do to help keep the city clean. One Saudi student said, he was not responsible and in fact, said he threw his trash wherever he liked because it was the garbage collectors' and street cleaners' job to pick up the trash, not his.
I damn near bit my tongue right off!
As for teachers sharing personal information (sexual orientation) that is the teacher's choice, but he/ she should be ready to accept the consequences, certainly should not be discussed in the work place.
Last edited by cmp45 on Fri May 25, 2012 9:51 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 7:00 am Post subject: |
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So much of the advice so far would lead to a teacher having an exceptionally lonely life abroad. You can't talk to your colleagues or bosses: who else would you talk to if you haven't made friends within the host community (who would presumably be as anti?) And I take whatev's point about how exhausting it all is. You can talk about what food you ate, things you saw around town, for example, but not who you went out with, or you know, deeper things.
I don't really have any advice on where to go, whether or not to share this sort of information, which far from being an "opinion" is surely a pretty fundamental part in who you are...
Best of luck whatevs! |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Teacher in Rome wrote: |
So much of the advice so far would lead to a teacher having an exceptionally lonely life abroad. You can't talk to your colleagues or bosses: who else would you talk to if you haven't made friends within the host community (who would presumably be as anti?) And I take whatev's point about how exhausting it all is. You can talk about what food you ate, things you saw around town, for example, but not who you went out with, or you know, deeper things.
I don't really have any advice on where to go, whether or not to share this sort of information, which far from being an "opinion" is surely a pretty fundamental part in who you are...
Best of luck whatevs! |
I supose one could always find 'people' to chat with on-line...  anyways, in my experience it is quite rare to meet people willing or able to engage/talk 'deeply" about anything, let alone one's sexuality...so I only share my inner most "deepest" thoughts with my cat |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Teacher in Rome wrote: |
| So much of the advice so far would lead to a teacher having an exceptionally lonely life abroad. You can't talk to your colleagues or bosses: who else would you talk to if you haven't made friends within the host community (who would presumably be as anti?) |
If you go anywhere with an attitude that the locality has to conform to your values, then yes, you'll have a miserable and lonely time abroad. It is best not to assume that you know better than the locals do. Even if they are clearly 'wrong' about something, it is their country and that's all that counts. This is not just about sexual mores, but also about politics, religion etc. Try being a militant atheist or vegetarian or animal rights activist in most parts of the world, and you'll be, at best, laughed out of the classroom - and some times for good reason. (Animal rights in states which don't have human rights?) Given some of the condescending remarks evinced thus far, I can only shudder to think what's in store.
Anyway, in answer to the OP's question, Turkey is probably a good bet for her. But again, discretion is the key point. |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Try being a militant atheist or vegetarian or animal rights activist in most parts of the world, and you'll be, at best, laughed out of the classroom - and some times for good reason. |
True, but we're talking also about outside the classroom - in your time off, so to speak.
I'm not saying anyone needs to go round thinking that the locality has to conform to your values. But if you can never talk about those, doesn't that then mean you're going to have a pretty lonely time?
I don't have any answers, Sasha. I'm a pretty outspoken person and would hate to feel I was being muffled because people around me were religiously or politically intolerant, for example. That's probably why I've never lived in a religiously-dominated or repressive country, where expressing opposing views is likely to get you into trouble.
To the OP: certain (but not all) parts of Europe might be more what you are looking for - if you can legally work here, that is. |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| in my experience it is quite rare to meet people willing or able to engage/talk 'deeply" about anything, let alone one's sexuality...so I only share my inner most "deepest" thoughts with my cat |
Aw cmp - that's really sad!
But I suppose it would be worse if, like me, you have cats that don't even listen! I can pour all manner of secret thoughts into my cats' ears (and I have three of them) but at most they yawn. Even worse is when they get up and walk away. Ingrates. |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Teacher in Rome wrote: |
| Quote: |
| in my experience it is quite rare to meet people willing or able to engage/talk 'deeply" about anything, let alone one's sexuality...so I only share my inner most "deepest" thoughts with my cat |
Aw cmp - that's really sad!
But I suppose it would be worse if, like me, you have cats that don't even listen! I can pour all manner of secret thoughts into my cats' ears (and I have three of them) but at most they yawn. Even worse is when they get up and walk away. Ingrates. |
Yeah this is true...but I don't take it personally |
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solidarnosc
Joined: 20 Apr 2012
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Anyway, in answer to the OP's question, Turkey is probably a good bet for her. But again, discretion is the key point. |
Not sure how you managed to come by such an opinion!!!
That is by far the worst and possibly the most dangerous advice I have seen on this forum in quite a long time.
Seriously why would you give someone such advice!!! If not naive, that advice is border line evil!!!
In answer to the OP's question, as a lesbian, Turkey is best avoided like the plague. |
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bulgogiboy
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Gay people |
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| whatevs wrote: |
Where is a good place to travel to and teach if you are gay? specifically as in my case, a gay female. I got a good offer in the middle east but then I realized it would be insane for me to go there. I was thinking about Taiwan but the market does not seem to be good (low demand?). Lots of opportunities In Korea I guess but I don't feel a strong interest in that culture, with all due respect.
I'm not in a rush to decide. Have a good summer school job, and the chance to renew for the fall at the place where I am now. But I feel it's time for a change. Any gay people out there feeling safe and blending in more or less, or friends of gays too  Thank u |
You'd think so, but, as another poster has pointed out, things aren't always what they seem in the ME. Gender segregation, and a focused ideal of female 'purity' and family 'honour', either through social 'norms' or through strictly-enforced law, has caused a lot of singles to go for same-sex experiences/relationships. I can only speak for the three Arab countries I've been to, but here goes:
Saudi Arabia: I don't think there's a better country in the world for gay dating than Saudi. The national psychosis over gender segregation has caused homosexual activity to be widespread throughout the kingdom. It's kind of like prison, where the sexes are forced to only spend time with their own gender. In a strange kind of unspoken way, from what I could gather, homosexual activity appeared to be more acceptable than unmarried heterosexual activity. A man and woman would be in big trouble were they to walk down the street holding hands, but I constantly saw obvious male couples holding hands and pinkies unashamedly in public. When asked, this can be explained away as 'culture', as genuinely heterosexual male friends do also hold hands as well (at least that's what I was told). I myself witnessed several instances of oogling, (car!) horn honking and harrassment. Several of my male co-workers were propositioned by other men, either in the street, in the classroom, or both. I myself was not. I guess I just don't have the pretty boy look, although I'm not complaining. The gay scene is there, it's rampant, and nobody talks about it. Having said all this, none of my co-workers were openly gay, or displayed any of the 'flare' that my co-workers in Qatar do. I'm sure you can have a pretty wild time in Saudi, you just can't talk about it.
Qatar: The law about gender segregation isn't clear in Qatar; it's kind of a gray area. It's more a cultural thing than a strictly-enforced rule. Western expats mix freely in public, as do Qataris in work and study environments, and policies about sex-segregation seem to be down to individual companies/hotels. The gay scene still flourishes here, despite the opportunities for mixed-gender socialising. I know several gay male co-workers, and most of them don't make any effort to hide their effeminate characteristics. It's an open secret. Nobody cares. Certain companies in Qatar seem quite gay-friendly, actually. This may be because gay single teachers stay longer, and are more content in Qatar than heterosexual ones, who knows. I have also had classes with students who were clearly homosexual, and, again,everyone knew it. Gay people have much more freedom than heterosexuals here. For example, the girl I'm seeing here can only have male visitors at her company accommodation, up until a certain time of day, so I am turfed out at night whenever I visit. However, same-sex visitors are allowed to stay over. Similarly, tongues may cluck if I have female visitors to my apartment, but I could invite as many other men over as I wanted, and nobody would care. I can hang out with male students as much as I like; if I were to hang out with female students I'd receive a warning/dismissal letter and/or threats/acts of violence from male relatives. As a woman, you can hang out with female students as much as you want, under the guise of 'friendship'. Nobody will care, unless you really make it into a public spectacle. I think, as a gay women, people won't be interested in what you get up to, unless you give them no other choice.. I think you would do just fine in Qatar, but, as with Saudi, you just need to be discreet in your relationships.
Egypt: A female massage therapist once told me that she didn't like massaging Egyptian women, as they almost always would ask for a 'happy ending', and she wasn't keen on that. In her opinion, Egypt has a massive percentage of lesbians. Again this is down to the cultural preoccupation with gender segregation and notions of 'honour'.
I think the ME is your best choice, to be honest!
Last edited by bulgogiboy on Fri May 25, 2012 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bulgogiboy
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| solidarnosc wrote: |
| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Anyway, in answer to the OP's question, Turkey is probably a good bet for her. But again, discretion is the key point. |
Not sure how you managed to come by such an opinion!!!
That is by far the worst and possibly the most dangerous advice I have seen on this forum in quite a long time.
Seriously why would you give someone such advice!!! If not naive, that advice is border line evil!!!
In answer to the OP's question, as a lesbian, Turkey is best avoided like the plague. |
I also worked in Turkey. My workplace was gay-friendly, and I knew at least one bi-sexual woman there. I also went to a bar in Ankara where women were unashamedly displaying 'more than friendly' affection for each other. I'd say it's a smiliar situation to the ME, and that if you are discreet you'll be just fine. |
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solidarnosc
Joined: 20 Apr 2012
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| bulgogiboy wrote: |
| solidarnosc wrote: |
| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Anyway, in answer to the OP's question, Turkey is probably a good bet for her. But again, discretion is the key point. |
Not sure how you managed to come by such an opinion!!!
That is by far the worst and possibly the most dangerous advice I have seen on this forum in quite a long time.
Seriously why would you give someone such advice!!! If not naive, that advice is border line evil!!!
In answer to the OP's question, as a lesbian, Turkey is best avoided like the plague. |
I also worked in Turkey. My workplace was gay-friendly, and I knew at least one bi-sexual woman there. I also went to a bar in Ankara where women were unashamedly displaying 'more than friendly' affection for each other. I'd say it's a smiliar situation to the ME, and that if you are discreet you'll be just fine. |
Of course in a nice safe community all is well, but what happens the minute you step out of that community?
Maybe you could tell me how many transvestites were slaughtered last month in Istanbul?
How many Gay men were beaten?
Lesbians are viewed in the most disgusting light in Turkey by Turkish people. Step outside the gay community in Turkey and take your chances.
Of course a lesbian woman is safe in a lesbian community, in a gay bar surround by Westerns, and a few open minded Turks, but what about 90% of the rest of time and people?
I am sorry but being gay in Turkey is not a good or safe thing. |
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