Job Discussion Forums

ditto · Joined: 19 Apr 2012 Posts: 3

Here's standard feedback from a couple of Saudi universities so far in response to a CV that covers over 30 years of international ESL and EFL experience with a BA, MA, and DELTA:

* The applicant is asked to provide exact starting and finishing dates from ALL previous jobs, and letters of reference from same.

* The applicant is told that distance MAs will not be recognized.

Okay, this is pretty unreasonable and unintelligent it seems to me, and I won't bore you with the reasons - they're obvious to anybody.

So I'm wondering two things: first, is this standard hiring practice from Saudi universities? Second, do any of you have a workaround? How to get credited for a qualification that's completely valid in the West, but not in their eyes? How to get letters of reference from school directors that are either dead or moved on?

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

They are paying the salary and they get to set the rules. I suggest that if the listed is your actual credentials and experience, you just don't bother with KSA. The Ministry of Higher Education in the UAE recognizes online/distance MAs, so the problem is gone. And the UAE is a much more pleasant place to live anyway... and yes, the money in the UAE universities is equal or better than KSA.

VS

ditto · Joined: 19 Apr 2012 Posts: 3

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Many universities in KSA have unrealistic expectations about everything.

cmp45 · Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 1475 Location: KSA

I would say that this is fairly standard practice based upon the three different places I applied to in KSA. They required education degrees to be certified by some higher authority as well liked to see letters of reference. They all expected to see exact start and end dates of previous employment...along with contact names and phone numbers/e-mail. They love to see the fancy stamps and numerous signatures on every bit of paper. They are quite anal regarding paper work.
The good news is after the first job, applying for jobs thereafter are some what easier as you already have all the 'papers' notarized and stamped so not necessary to do again. That's if you are crazy enough like me to continue working in KSA Laughing

But again ...I have done well enough.

It's usually the first job in KSA that is the most difficult to manage; jumping through all their hoops! Cool

BTW, they all rejected my online masters degree in Post Secondary Education which was done through a reputable university....I couldn't get round the fact it was on-line since I had done it part time while I was teaching in KSA. It is frustrating, but there is little one can do about it.

I have also taught in the UAE and have to say I prefer Saudi Arabia. In the UAE, I found the students to be more difficult to manage and were more arrogant than Saudi students. I supose the lifestyle in the UAE is more reasonable than KSA. I supose salaries may be higher too in UAE, but if you are going 'out' alot you will find your savings melting away.

7168Riyadh · Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 149

It's bonkers in Saudi. Don't give up though. You might be able to wing it under the radar via a recruiter. Don't ever tell people your MA was earned via distance learning, and act like it won't be an issue, because if you don't mention it...

nomad soul · Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world

It's a hassle to track down previous employers and hope they'll be cooperative or that they're even still in operation. But the plus side is that some Saudi employers use this employment verfication to determine your salary, which in your case, could amount to quite a bundle. However, I agree with VS. Given your academic qualifications and years of experience, you should apply for positions elsewhere. A couple of good sites are higheredjobs.com and chronicle.com.

ditto · Joined: 19 Apr 2012 Posts: 3

Wow! Very useful responses! Thanks, everyone. You may regret having been so helpful - I'm going to be spending some time here now. Laughing

cmp45 · Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 1475 Location: KSA

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

It is sensible in this fiel of work, if you can call it that, to get certificates of service when you leave a job. That should include the date of starting and leaving.

Grendal · Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject:

For the new grunt going into the breech for the first time is always difficult. And then you have to survive it to attempt it again. and so on.....

That is how it is here. Sorry. /sound of bubbles bursting/

About letters of rec. and work experience letters you just collect one from each employer you ever worked with. That is difficult if you have just graduated with your degree and teaching certificate. Actually the clock starts ticking then. Employers will ask what have you been doing (ELT related) since you graduated? You may say studying or worked managing a team of oil platform drillers but that does not ring their bell of ELT experience.

T.S. Eliot
aka
Grendal

7168Riyadh · Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 149

military metaphors...allusions to T.S. Eliot...get a life Grendal, you wally.

johnslat · Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject:

Dear 7168Riyadh,

" . . . . get a life Grendal . . ."

Ah, but some might say the only way to do that in Saudi is to head for the airport. Very Happy

Regards,
John

Grendal · Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject:

Grendal · Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject:

I have more metaphors. And what's wrong with metaphors anyways? Or is it just mine in particular you don't like. Or to the point directly. You just don't like me. Don't worry.

I don't care.

Grendal