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Mike_2007 · Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 349 Location: Bucharest, Romania

There's a great radio show by Stephen Fry on how English is almost entirely idiomatic if you examine the literal (non-idiomatic) meaning of most of the words we use.

Denim-Maniac · Joined: 31 Jan 2012 Posts: 1238

fluffyhamster · Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:26 am Post subject:

LongShiKong · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China

I needed a good pick me up... another thread of mine vanished.

Would the above qualify as both an idiom and phrasal verb? And what's the difference between an idiom, a figure of speech, and a colloquialism?

johnslat · Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject:

Dear LongShiKong

"Would the above qualify as both an idiom and phrasal verb?"

It'd be hard to qualify as a verb when it's being used as a noun. Or here, as an adjective: Do you know any good pick-up lines? Very Happy

"And what's the difference between an idiom, a figure of speech, and a colloquialism?"

I'd say that "figure of speech" would be the most general term.

Idioms are one type of figures of speech.

Phrasal verbs (the figurative meanings) are one kind of idiom, and a colloquialism is a local or regional informal dialectical expression which can involve a figure of speech ("Colloquialisms include words (such as y'all, gonna, and wanna), phrases - such as old as the hills, raining cats and dogs, and dead as a doornail - and aphorisms (such as There's more than one way to skin a cat)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloquialism#Examples

Regards,
John

LongShiKong · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

johnslat · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject:

In my opinion, with phrasals, the meanings are the most important item. Of course there IS a grammar component, but the major aspect of that is whether the phrasal is separable or non-separable. And that can't really be "taught" since there's no rule. The only way students can get it is by acquiring a "smart eye" (reading) and a "smart ear" (listening).

Whether a phrase is a phrasal (2 or 3 word verb) or simply a verb and a proposition may be interesting to linguists but is, I'd say, irrelevant to almost all students.

Regards,
John

LongShiKong · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China

[quote="johnslat"...with phrasals, the meanings are the most important[/quote]

Agreed. That's why I prefer among other things, simple substitution practice although I haven't spent nor intend to spend a lot of time teaching them.

@Spiral: As for the prevalence of idioms, I was referring to the language in general, not to how prevalent they are in language teaching contexts. But you're right, there's far more important things to teach than to spend valuable class time on them. That's why I was surprised to find myself teaching them to a class of intermediate teens.